Diafine Screw-up

[filmbug]

This is the first time I prepare Diafine solutions. Being in Canada, I am not familiar with the US Gallon. So instead of mixing each solution with 3.78 litres of water, I used 4.55 litres. That's too much water by 20%. I still plan on trying it with some unimportant films.

Is that going to make a difference? Should I even bother trying?

 

[gainer]

Might make about 15% difference in optimum developing time. That would be my starting assumption for the trials.

 

[sanking]

I would follow Pat's suggestion for beginning tests. However, with two-bath developers time is less important than with standard development, assuming you don't give too little so even if you followed the same times as recommended by Diafine I think your results would be fine.

Sandy King

Might make about 15% difference in optimum developing time. That would be my starting assumption for the trials.

 

[Larry Bullis]

Concur with both the above. Actually, it seems very unlikely that you could cause any harm by leaving the film in the b bath longer; any effect would most likely be limited to increasing the density in the lower values, since the highlights will exhaust even earlier with your mix. Oddly enough, you may have stumbled on a method of increasing speed without burning out the highlights.

I'd sure like to hear about what you discover. Please inform us.

 

[psvensson]

You'll likely get reduced development regardless of what time you use. But when I used Diafine, it overdeveloped the films I tried it with, so your results might be good.

 

[reellis67]

Wouldn't there be less part A absorbed due to the dilution? I make no claim of expertise, but it seems that there would be ~%20 less part A absorbed than normal, and no mater how much time it soaked you would still get the same %20 thinner solution A for part B to work with, assuming of course that you don't soak in part A for too short a time (i.e. less than ~3 minutes)

- Randy

 

[psvensson]

Wouldn't there be less part A absorbed due to the dilution? I make no claim of expertise, but it seems that there would be ~%20 less part A absorbed than normal, and no mater how much time it soaked you would still get the same %20 thinner solution A for part B to work with, assuming of course that you don't soak in part A for too short a time (i.e. less than ~3 minutes)

- Randy

Exactly.

 

[gainer]

I used Diafine once a long time ago. I think the time in the first developer did affect contrast. IOW, there was some density buildup in the first developer. You could test my recollection with a snip of film in the first developer with lights on. I also played with D-23 as first developer, so I may be mixing my memories. It happens when you pass age 80, I've been told.

 

[eye_of_wally]

You should not really have any issues, I would just make sure you use each solution for 4-5 minutes but I do that any way with regular strength Diafine. Lots of sheet film users I know dilute Difiane by 50% in part B anyway

 

[filmbug]

Processed one roll of Arista.Edu Ultra 400 at 4 minutes in each solution. The film was exposed at 400asa. The 35mm negative looks normal. Mind you, this is my first time with Diafine so I don't really know what to expect. Just by staring at the negative it looks just a bit less contrasty than what I normally get with Xtol 1+1.

I will be scanning it to get a better look.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

You might need to increase the time or temperature in Bath A.

A 20% dilution of the sodium carbonate that makes up the Bath B is inconsequential.

Don't sweat it, run a few tests. The 3 + 3 minutes is pretty generic, anyway. Look at the suggested times chart and you will see many variations.

 

[Larry Bullis]

One thing that is very important with Diafine (and with Acufine, if you ever use it) is to be sure that you get ALL of the chemicals dissolved. If there is any particulate matter left in the mix HEAT it and KEEP STIRRING.

Acufine does not mix very well at the recommended temperature. Phenidone can be incredibly hard to get into the solution. Without all the phenidone dissolved, it simply does not work. I believe Diafine also uses phenidone. I will heat as much as necessary to get it dissolved. I have a hot plate mag mixer combo. I just turn it up. Works great.

If any doubt, run your part A through a coffee filter. If you see a white precipitate in it, you need to work harder to get it dissolved.

 

[filmbug]

I'd like to thank everyone's input on the matter.

The two images below are from that first roll of film.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyberimages/2966662150/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyberimages/2965814807/

 

[Kevin Caulfield]

Those images look fine, so I'm glad it worked out okay for you.

 

[voceumana]

If you want to make it right, buy a 1 quart kit of Diafine and add it to the already mixed solutions plus 190 mL of water.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

I'd like to thank everyone's input on the matter.

The two images below are from that first roll of film.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyberimages/2966662150/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyberimages/2965814807/

I think that the one with the silver bubble pack in the door is a great example of how Diafine and DD's generally can save the highlights.

I just mixed up my first Metol-Ascorbic Acid divided developer. Thanks to Jay F for his predecessor work and suggestions. I didn't have ascorbate so....

Metol 5g or 1/2tsp
AA 20g or 4tsp
Sodium Bicarbonate 16g or 4 1/2tsp. I added until the fizzing stopped.
23g 1 tbl Sodium Sulfite. This is not preservative, but to help the Metol bring up full film speed. Metol w/o is not good, film losing a lot of speed.
pH 8.5

Bath B is 2.4g, 1/2tsp TSP, pH 10.5. Why this? I wanted a very UNbuffered accelerator to control highlights and overexposures.

My standard TMY-2 test strip shows printable from EI 800 to 100, box speed right on. Can't see grain with an 8X loupe and no fog.

 

[Larry Bullis]

I'd like to thank everyone's input on the matter.

The two images below are from that first roll of film.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyberimages/2966662150/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyberimages/2965814807/

Are these from prints, or scans of the negatives? Did you increase the contrast? The images look great. If you did increase the contrast in printing, or did not, it seems to me that you are doing fine either way. If you had to increase a lot, and sometimes shoot in very flat light, you might have a bit of trouble. To be sure, just mix it full strength next time. Of course, diafine lasts a very long time, so you may be living with this for awhile. Or follow the great suggestion (can't see it as I write, but it's right on) to add another mix to what you have at lower dilution.

 

[filmbug]

I scanned the negatives and adjusted levels and applied un-sharp mask in Photoshop Elements 2.0. I didn't need to play with the levels that much to tweak these images. They feel very normal to me. I have just uploaded another one that was shot in very flat light from the same roll of film. It looks ok to me.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyberimages/2980893602/

Bowzart, sounds like you understood my concerns. I know I'll be stuck with this batch of diafine for a while. Voceumana made a great suggestion about getting the 1 quart kit to make up for it. That's quite a concept. The price for 1 quart kit is about $10 while the price for the 1 gallon kit is about $14. Freestyle, where I got my 1 gallon kit charges at least $20 to ship to Canada and they don't carry the 1 quart kit. I can get it from other places but I don't image the shipping will be any less than $10. Come to think of it, I can just get another 1 gallon kit and add enough water to complete 2 gallons of each solution. That might be more cost effective.

There is another issue though, the Canadian dollar has weakened in the week or so. It's no longer near par with the US. It will now cost me Cdn$1.30 to get US$1.00.

By the way, I just processed 6 more rolls of film in this Diafine mix. Most of them were exposed in high contrast situations. The negatives look very high contrast. This time I develop the film at 5 minutes in each solution.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

Filmbug: The good news is that your Diafine will probably work for several years, especially if kept cool. If it does start going bad, you will know it with reduced activity. It won't drop dead all of a sudden. Bath B is mostly sodium carbonate, plain old Arm & Hammer (in the US) washing soda. Diafine is a rare two bath that also has sodium sulfite in Bath B. I doubt if you would ever know it wasn't there. In other words, you can mix up fresh Bath B when it gets ugly by putting a teaspoon of carbonate per qt./l., it isn't critical.

You don't need to keep times equal in baths. In fact, a longer than necessary immersion in B will lead to increased grain and fog. Yes, you can get increased development and maybe better shadow detail with increased time in Bath A. It's a Phenidone-Hydroquinone developer w/o the alkali, but it is active at it's native pH. About 8.2 IIRC. If you increase the time in A, I would suggest keeping the B to three minutes.

Something I've discovered on my own and have never seen mentioned is what I call Film Reactivity, and subsequently, my FR Index, or FRI. All you have to do is look at film development times in D-76 or Xtol and you will see films running from five to eleven or more minutes. Obviously, a film with a high FRI will develop much fuirther along in Diafine Bath A, maybe even 60-80%, than one with a low FRI. IIRC, Acros, for instance uses five minutes or so.

Find your own bliss, the suggestions with Diafine are starting points. You can also use a higher temperature if it is more convenient; you may have to adjust Bath A time.

 

[Larry Bullis]

There is another issue though, the Canadian dollar has weakened in the week or so. It's no longer near par with the US. It will now cost me Cdn$1.30 to get US$1.00.

I sympathize, but happily, because my wife and I can again afford to go to Vancouver for dim sum!

You know, if you are getting less contrast than you need, you can go through the process, rinse thoroughly, and repeat the process. A, B, rinse, A, B, fix. Some trouble, maybe but it can work.

L.

 

[Tim Gray]

I've never found that increasing the times of either bath in Diafine did anything. I usually shoot for 5 mins.

I would guess that having your bath A watered down a bit means that less of bath A actually gets absorbed into the film. Since development is limited by the amount of bath A in the film, it seems like you are essentially pulling development. So derate your film a little bit. Since Diafine gives a push, rating a film at box speed might be just right...