Development Issue B+W: Lighter along frame edges inside frame

Nikanon · May 9, 2022

I have encountered an issue recently on some Pan-F 50 but also have noticed it lightly on some other films of uneven development mostly along the vertical edges on each side of the frame in the image area. There is essentially a lighter band (developed longer) right inside the frame edge. I would suspect this has to do with not enough agitation causing the developer to migrate, but it seems to occur just inside this area. This isnt really something I've encountered among hundreds of rolls I've developed, or at least not bad enough to notice like this. Any thoughts?

Sirius Glass · May 9, 2022

Since it is repeating on a vertical edge, it is unlikely to be a development problem or a development tank problem. You may have an internal reflection on light leak on the left side of the camera window.

AgX · May 9, 2022

Seems to be reflection from gate edges.

Nikanon · May 9, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
Since it is repeating on a vertical edge, it is unlikely to be a development problem or a development tank problem. You may have an internal reflection on light leak on the left side of the camera window.

It does seem to look more like a light leak, but does occur on both edges of the film too, and I dont see it outside the frame at all

Peltigera · May 9, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
Since it is repeating on a vertical edge, it is unlikely to be a development problem or a development tank problem. You may have an internal reflection on light leak on the left side of the camera window.

The lines are on both sides of the negative, though.

Strikes me as more likely to be diffusion of unused developer from the area between the images causing greater development just inside the image.

Nikanon · May 9, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
Since it is repeating on a vertical edge, it is unlikely to be a development problem or a development tank problem. You may have an internal reflection on light leak on the left side of the camera window.

Also, this is a Nikon FG with a standard back, so there is no peep window

Nikanon · May 9, 2022

Peltigera said:
The lines are on both sides of the negative, though.

Strikes me as more likely to be diffusion of unused developer from the area between the images causing greater development just inside the image.

I was thinking this as well, which is why I would think it could be an agitation issue where the developer isnt getting moved enough and migrating slowly into the frame since the between areas use so little. But I am agitating with one inversion every 30 seconds and this hasn't caused this issue before

Nikanon · May 9, 2022

AgX said:
Seems to be reflection from gate edges.

I don't think so as I would imagine it would be more uniform, it has the hallmark of being more like a chemical issue in how it is blotchy

Ian C · May 9, 2022

I can’t think of anything that would alter development along the edges of frame only. The film doesn’t “know” anything about frame boundaries.

The only thing that makes sense to me is a slight light fogging along the edges of the film during exposure. I might detect a very slight banding along some of the top edge as well. I’m not certain of this.

snusmumriken · May 9, 2022

Is that a scan of a print or of the negative? Are the bands visible on the negative?

It looks very much like the problem one gets with a bad (shiny) enlarging easel, only negative. So I'd suspect the film gate of the camera or of the scanner.

Nikanon · May 9, 2022

snusmumriken said:
Is that a scan of a print or of the negative? Are the bands visible on the negative?

It looks very much like the problem one gets with a bad (shiny) enlarging easel, only negative. So I'd suspect the film gate of the camera or of the scanner.

This is a scan of the negative, its not readily visible to the naked eye, but on some I can absolutely see a darker line on the negative itself. I still think the blotchy nature of it rules out a reflection, when I do get issues with the scanner they are often horizontal lines and consistent across the frame

Sirius Glass · May 9, 2022

Nikanon said:
This is a scan of the negative, its not readily visible to the naked eye, but on some I can absolutely see a darker line on the negative itself. I still think the blotchy nature of it rules out a reflection, when I do get issues with the scanner they are often horizontal lines and consistent across the frame

Would you please photograph the negative, not scan, so we can eliminate any scanning issues.

Nikanon · May 9, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
Would you please photograph the negative, not scan, so we can eliminate any scanning issues.

Yes Sir, here you go. This is viewed through a loupe

Sirius Glass · May 9, 2022

Nikanon said:
Yes Sir, here you go. This is viewed through a loupe

Excuse me, but "Sir" is for old men and none of us is them.

Nikanon · May 9, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
Excuse me, but "Sir" is for old men and none of us is them.

Sorry about that! Just how we speak out here in Wyoming

MattKing · May 9, 2022

That looks like the result of some sort of flare or reflection within the camera.
If you take the lens off and open the shutter can you see any shiny surfaces near the edge of the film gate?

Doremus Scudder · May 9, 2022

I'm betting on reflection too. I've had this happen with 4x5 filmholders where the edges were glossy and at a 45°-angle to the film. Time to look inside the camera (mirror up).

Doremus

Nikanon · May 9, 2022

Doremus Scudder said:
I'm betting on reflection too. I've had this happen with 4x5 filmholders where the edges were glossy and at a 45°-angle to the film. Time to look inside the camera (mirror up).

Doremus

Heres what I found. It looks very much like this could cause reflections, but wouldnt this be a widely known issue with the Nikon FG if that were they case??

Nikanon · May 9, 2022

MattKing said:
That looks like the result of some sort of flare or reflection within the camera.
If you take the lens off and open the shutter can you see any shiny surfaces near the edge of the film gate?

absolutely. If this is the cause, what is the remedy, and why is it not widely known?

AgX · May 9, 2022

Nikanon said:
I don't think so as I would imagine it would be more uniform, it has the hallmark of being more like a chemical issue in how it is blotchy

If it is not a reflection caused thing, why then at dark areas there is no such strip?

MattKing · May 9, 2022

I think that it is the bit shown here that is causing the problem. Perhaps that is supposed to be blackened.

Nikanon · May 9, 2022

AgX said:
If it is not a reflection caused thing, why then at dark areas there is no such strip?

Interesting question, and now looking inside the camera it appears that it may very well be reflection. But why would such an obvious issue be not well known in the FG is what I am wondering now if it is the cause

AgX · May 9, 2022

Lacquer the edges with antireflective varnish (matte black or chalkboard) and see again.

NB23 · May 9, 2022

Stand developed?

Nikanon · May 9, 2022

NB23 said:
Stand developed?

No, normal with agitation every 30 seconds

Development Issue B+W: Lighter along frame edges inside frame

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