Development error question

[c41]

Hi, could I lean into the collective wisdom here as to what I did here and how to not do it again?

This is the worst example on the roll but I can see evidence of the same on other frames.
I'm assuming it is chemistry related (not enough? frothy?) and it's the top of the tank/reel that has this marking?

For reference - Patterson reel, 2-reel Patterson tank, 1l chemistry (500l per roll)
It was D76 1:1, then my normal stop (1:19) and Ilford Rapid Fixer (1:4)

The lower placed roll in the tank doesn't show the same effect but that could be coincedence I suppose.

Thanks.

 

[MattKing]

This looks to be a fairly typical example of air bubbles near the edge of the film.
A number of factors can contribute to this, including insufficient volume of developer, impurities in the diluting water or the stock developer, wetting agent or other residue on the reels, or insufficient agitation.

 

[mshchem]

My first guess is not enough solution to fully immerse the top reel

 

[mshchem]

This looks to be a fairly typical example of air bubbles near the edge of the film.
A number of factors can contribute to this, including insufficient volume of developer, impurities in the diluting water or the stock developer, wetting agent or other residue on the reels, or insufficient agitation.

+1

 

[c41]

Thank you, that makes sense. Is it what might be seen from not banging the tank adequately post-agitation to remove air bubbles?

I have seen these marks before but just put it down to probably being not quite enough chemistry. I might check the scale on my jugs I use - I just plastic jugs with side scales when I measure out 1l of chemistry. I wanted to rule out other possibilities but...

 

[MattKing]

Is it what might be seen from not banging the tank adequately post-agitation to remove air bubbles?

That "banging" is one way to reduce their likelihood.
Some people have problems with these regularly, while others never have them.
They can be very frustrating to deal with.

 

[mshchem]

Any residual wetting agent like Photoflo will create suds, not good. Agitation should be gentle inversions with a bit of a rotation. Never shake the tank, just 3 or 4 inversions every minute when using a diluted developer (longer development times) is plenty with 1 solid rap when you set the tank back down.

 

[koraks]

This looks to be a fairly typical example of air bubbles near the edge of the film.

Bingo.

Ensure that the fill level of the tank is sufficient. Place the reels on the center column and the whole thin into the tank and measure the volume that's needed to entirely submerge both reels. Also, make sure that when loading the reels into the tank, the reels are slid all the way to the end of the center column so that they sit at the bottom of the tank and snugly on top of each other. If your reels somehow slide relatively freely over the center column, make a provision so that they remain in place when agitating; consider something like a temporary wad of tape or a spare/empty reel (if it fits) at the top of the stack to keep everything in place.

 

[c41]

Thanks all for the feedback. I’ll check my levels and reels and be a bit more mindful on process.

 

[loccdor]

I was getting these on almost every roll of 120 and doing around 5 agitated pre-washes to remove the residual photo-flo from the tank and reels fixed it. You could also do that after a developing session, clean your reels with a toothbrush, etc. I don't think it's the level of the developer.

When you pour your developer in the tank and agitate it a few times, open up the top and see if there are lots of bubbles. That's left over wetting agent.

 

[pentaxuser]

Thank you, that makes sense. Is it what might be seen from not banging the tank adequately post-agitation to remove air bubbles?

I have seen these marks before but just put it down to probably being not quite enough chemistry. I might check the scale on my jugs I use - I just plastic jugs with side scales when I measure out 1l of chemistry. I wanted to rule out other possibilities but...

It looks as if you used 1 L of developer in a Paterson 2 reel tank. If I have got that right then what does Paterson say about the quantity of developer needed for its 2 reel tank? If it says 1L and you used 1L then on the basis that the tank manufacturer usually gives the correct quantity I'd have thought that lack of chemistry was not the likely cause unless the tank leaks each time you invert it. In which case I suppose it is possible for enough to leak before the end of the development time

To check on this you might want to put two empty reels in the tank, pour in 1l and check if both reels are covered and with what kind of a margin. Invert as if you were developing for real for your dev time and then examine if the liquid still covers the top of the reel

pentaxuser

 

[Augustus Caesar]

Hi, could I lean into the collective wisdom here as to what I did here and how to not do it again?

This is the worst example on the roll but I can see evidence of the same on other frames.
I'm assuming it is chemistry related (not enough? frothy?) and it's the top of the tank/reel that has this marking?

For reference - Patterson reel, 2-reel Patterson tank, 1l chemistry (500l per roll)
It was D76 1:1, then my normal stop (1:19) and Ilford Rapid Fixer (1:4)

The lower placed roll in the tank doesn't show the same effect but that could be coincedence I suppose.

Thanks.

View attachment 368497 View attachment 368496 View attachment 368498

Fill the tank almost all the way! Leave a small amount of air space. You need to put more liquid in than they say.

 

[thepond]

With the patterson, after you have the reels installed, the funnel lid installed, its best to fill so that the hole for the twist stick has chemical coming up through it. Ive always done my 2 35mm reel that way, makes it easier to mix up chemicals. 6ml rodinal, fill measure to 610 with water. And then fill the loaded tank so some water comes up out of that hole.