Developing time for Rollei IR with an R72 in XTOL and replenished XTOL in Jobo tanks?

[Sirius Glass]

I do not trust the Massive Development Chart. I have caught too many errors.

Developing time for Rollei IR with an R72 in XTOL and replenished XTOL in Jobo tanks?

 

[mitch brown]

I use 6:30 on my jobo with Xtol 1:1

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

EI 12 Xtol 1+1 BTZS tube (not jobo but still rotary) 20C. 8 minutes.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Sorry just checked my data. 7:30.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Still a good rotary process starting point. Thank you.

 

[mitch brown]

I use EI of 6
mitch

 

[Sirius Glass]

I use EI of 6
mitch

So 400/6 = 66.6667 ~ 64 and 26 = 64 Therefore the filter factor is 6. I have seen both 5 and 6 used as a filter factor. Thank you.

 

[mitch brown]

U are welcome

 

[Svenedin]

The developing time indicated for Xtol 1+1 on the inside of the Rollei box is drastically different to that given in the massive dev chart. I have used the times given on the box with Xtol 1+1 and I have been pleased with results (which is why incidentally I use EI 25 with an R72 which is +4 stops and not the +5 that many people use).

This may also be of interest (although it is 2006)
https://www.maco-photo.de/files/images/ROLLEI INFRARED englisch.pdf

 

[Sirius Glass]

I ordered five rolls yesterday and I will be sure to look inside the boxes.

 

[Svenedin]

I ordered five rolls yesterday and I will be sure to look inside the boxes.

Good plan. I don't understand why there are such differences in dev times but the box times worked for me so I had no desire to try anything else (that might not work). As you can see from the picture, that particular roll is 120 (purchased about 2 years ago).

 

[Ai Print]

17 minutes in Xtol seems a road to welding glasses dense negs. I want to run a batch using my Jobo but this seems insane, anyone else have some up to date beta on this?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Jobo processor, prewash replenished XTOL
68° F 7.5 minutes
72° F 6.0 minutes
73° F 5.75 minutes
74° F 5.5 minutes
75° F 5.25 minutes

 

[pentaxuser]

Jobo processor, prewash replenished XTOL
68° F 7.5 minutes
72° F 6.0 minutes
73° F 5.75 minutes
74° F 5.5 minutes
75° F 5.25 minutes

Sirius, so did you initially try the Rollei times on the box and then found the result to be welding glasses density as mentioned in # 12? If not what decided you to use the times that are much closer to what everyone here uses, except Svenedin. The difference between Xtol times on the Rollei box and the rest of the times for almost all other developers except for Tanol is massive - head-scratchingly different to put it mildly

It's a pity that Svenedin hasn't visited since Jan 2020 as pictures of his negs and prints would be helpful

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

17 minutes in Xtol seems a road to welding glasses dense negs. I want to run a batch using my Jobo but this seems insane, anyone else have some up to date beta on this?

Possibly, but it's for Xtol 1+1 at box speed. At EI 6, it would be much shorter, like 7:30. Still waiting for Xtol to show up on those shelves!

 

[Sirius Glass]

Sirius, so did you initially try the Rollei times on the box and then found the result to be welding glasses density as mentioned in # 12? If not what decided you to use the times that are much closer to what everyone here uses, except Svenedin. The difference between Xtol times on the Rollei box and the rest of the times for almost all other developers except for Tanol is massive - head-scratchingly different to put it mildly

It's a pity that Svenedin hasn't visited since Jan 2020 as pictures of his negs and prints would be helpful

Thanks

pentaxuser

I used the Digital Truth XTOL 1:1 times for Jobo replenished XTOL times. When I cannot find times for rotary replenished XTOL, I use the Digital Truth XTOL 1:1 times as a starting place.

 

[pentaxuser]

Possibly, but it's for Xtol 1+1 at box speed. At EI 6, it would be much shorter, like 7:30. Still waiting for Xtol to show up on those shelves!

It may be that Svenedin is talking about the 17 mins time for Rollei at 400 i.e. without any filters but in that post he mentions using EI 25 with a R72 so it would look as if he sticks to 17 mins.

Andrew, your point about times and lower EI speeds due to filters has made me wonder about non IR filters such as red , orange etc These effective add filter factors and lower shutter speed thereby increasing exposure time but there seems no mention of this affecting dev times e.g. HP5+ with a red has a much lower shutter speed but the development time stays the same. It just as if you have taken a picture with an unfiltered film on a very dark day. By this token doesn't the R72 simply act like a very dark filter but not affect the development time so 17 mins given for box speed remains what it should be irrespective of what filter is on the front of the lens?

pentaxuser

 

[Sirius Glass]

For properly exposed film the development time is invariant to filtering.

 

[MattKing]

For properly exposed film the development time is invariant to filtering.

A slightly more nuanced response might be useful.
If you are seeking Wood effect, and using a near IR sensitive film in conjunction with an R72 filter, you probably want to adjust contrast to what you want.
So I would take Sirius' recommendations for development times as incorporating the filter used, the resulting light actually exposing the film, and his judgment about resulting contrast.
If he were exposing the film without that filter, he would be working mostly with visible (not IR and near IR) light, and the contrast would be different, so I'm sure he would have given different development recommendations.

 

[pentaxuser]

I used the Digital Truth XTOL 1:1 times for Jobo replenished XTOL times. When I cannot find times for rotary replenished XTOL, I use the Digital Truth XTOL 1:1 times as a starting place.

Thanks Sirius. Can you recall what decided you against the long times quoted by Svenedin and taken from his Rollei box? Was it just a gut instinct that an increase in time of more than 200% to 17 mins just had to be wrong?

As i have said it is a pity that Svenedin has been absent since Jan 2020 as it would be useful to see his negs and subsequent prints from 17 mins dev time and get clarification as to what filter he used although it does look as if it was a R72 and 17 mins

pentaxuser

 

[Sirius Glass]

A slightly more nuanced response might be useful.
If you are seeking Wood effect, and using a near IR sensitive film in conjunction with an R72 filter, you probably want to adjust contrast to what you want.
So I would take Sirius' recommendations for development times as incorporating the filter used, the resulting light actually exposing the film, and his judgment about resulting contrast.
If he were exposing the film without that filter, he would be working mostly with visible (not IR and near IR) light, and the contrast would be different, so I'm sure he would have given different development recommendations.

I would never waste IR film by shooting without a R25, R29 or R72 [730] filter.

 

[duffyevan]

I know this is an old thread but I figured I would toss in my two cents. I shot my first roll of Rollei IR with a Hoya R72 recently and I exposed for EI 6 or 12 depending on the scene, and I extrapolated ~12 mins in Xtol (replenish) from the 17 mins in Xtol 1+1 listed inside the box (also listed on the data sheet). The negatives I got out of the soup were indeed "welding glasses dense negs." So dense that it was very easy to see the positive image by the reflection off the emulsion. Thankfully I was able to pull everything way down in software to have mostly usable scans and they actually look alright, albeit will all the sliders at the minimum value. Some were usable, some were not (see the attached examples). I haven't had a chance to print these negatives yet but I expect similar results.

I have another roll I plan on shooting and I am going to try the 7.5 to 8 mins mentioned here. I really wonder if the "1+1" on the inside of the box is a typo and they meant to say "1+2". Extrapolating 17 mins in 1+2 to stock solution is about 7.5-8.5 mins so that would make a lot more sense to me. I'll update the thread when I develop that roll for posterity.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I know this is an old thread but I figured I would toss in my two cents. I shot my first roll of Rollei IR with a Hoya R72 recently and I exposed for EI 6 or 12 depending on the scene, and I extrapolated ~12 mins in Xtol (replenish) from the 17 mins in Xtol 1+1 listed inside the box (also listed on the data sheet). The negatives I got out of the soup were indeed "welding glasses dense negs." So dense that it was very easy to see the positive image by the reflection off the emulsion. Thankfully I was able to pull everything way down in software to have mostly usable scans and they actually look alright, albeit will all the sliders at the minimum value. Some were usable, some were not (see the attached examples). I haven't had a chance to print these negatives yet but I expect similar results.

I have another roll I plan on shooting and I am going to try the 7.5 to 8 mins mentioned here. I really wonder if the "1+1" on the inside of the box is a typo and they meant to say "1+2". Extrapolating 17 mins in 1+2 to stock solution is about 7.5-8.5 mins so that would make a lot more sense to me. I'll update the thread when I develop that roll for posterity.

At EI 6, 7:30 for Xtol 1+1 has given me the best densities. Same with Pyrocat-HD.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I know this is an old thread but I figured I would toss in my two cents. I shot my first roll of Rollei IR with a Hoya R72 recently and I exposed for EI 6 or 12 depending on the scene, and I extrapolated ~12 mins in Xtol (replenish) from the 17 mins in Xtol 1+1 listed inside the box (also listed on the data sheet). The negatives I got out of the soup were indeed "welding glasses dense negs." So dense that it was very easy to see the positive image by the reflection off the emulsion. Thankfully I was able to pull everything way down in software to have mostly usable scans and they actually look alright, albeit will all the sliders at the minimum value. Some were usable, some were not (see the attached examples). I haven't had a chance to print these negatives yet but I expect similar results.

I have another roll I plan on shooting and I am going to try the 7.5 to 8 mins mentioned here. I really wonder if the "1+1" on the inside of the box is a typo and they meant to say "1+2". Extrapolating 17 mins in 1+2 to stock solution is about 7.5-8.5 mins so that would make a lot more sense to me. I'll update the thread when I develop that roll for posterity.

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