Developing: Pull out leader vs. opening cassette?

tokam · Apr 22, 2016

When processing films I have bulk loaded I pop the end cap and remove the spool. Lately when processing factory loaded cassettes I have been pulling out the film through the felt lips on the cassette. This is because the crimping on factory cassettes is so tight I nearly have to destroy the cassettes to get the end caps off.

I have just been caught out with scratches from a factory loaded cassette of Delta 100 out of my near mint T90. Unfortunately I discarded the cassette before I discovered the scratches. The T90 all looks good so it's a bit of a puzzle. I am also quite careful in keeping the film inside the plastic tubs before and after exposing the film.

For the next few films I shall draw out a couple of inches of leader and check with a loup before loading a camera. At least I'll get a chance to view the film on its first pass out of the cassette.

jeffreythree · Apr 22, 2016

I do it either way. If the leader is out, I go ahead and trim it for my plastic reels and to keep from double exposing. If not, I just pop it open in the darkroom with a bottle opener even though I also have a leader retriever. I don't have bulk film for my loader yet; so I only have experience with new cassettes.

canuhead · Apr 22, 2016

to add: when I do pop the top, I use something like this, easy to find in the darkroom as it's either mounted on a wall or the counter where loading takes place.

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/116061-Arista-Wall-Mount-Film-Cartridge-Opener

bvy · Apr 22, 2016

tomfrh said:
Has anyone experienced film scratches from pulling it out? Or is it more of a theoretical risk!

Unless you've been playing in the sand, I think the actual risk is minimal.

Rewinding the film in camera seems to me a far greater "scratch risk" than pulling it out of a felt-lined cassette. I open the camera in the darkroom and rewind the film manually, not allowing the emulsion side of the film to run along the inside of the camera a second time. I also don't rewind the film all the way. For my auto-rewind cameras, I have a film leader retriever, a dandy little invention, and fish the leader out of the cassette. I then load the reels by gradually pulling the film out of the cassette. In light of all this, though, I might start widening the opening a bit before pulling the film out.

The handful of times I tried opening the cassette by hand, I cut myself on the edges. Blood in the darkroom is almost as bad as light.

Dali · Apr 22, 2016

tomfrh said:
Has anyone experienced film scratches from pulling it out? Or is it more of a theoretical risk!

Never!

pbo · Apr 22, 2016

You can do both! Don't rewind the film all the way, make a sharp ~1/4" fold on the end of the leader, and then roll it back by hand almost all the way until that fold hooks onto the cartridge lip. It looks pretty obviously different from an unexposed cartridge and you can still pull out the leader to trim before popping the cap in darkness and developing.

For opening the commercial cans - I use the toothed end of kitchen shears like these and they work well. Bonus - you can use them to cut off the end of the film off the spool.

Someone else on the thread mentioned notes being wiped off the cartridge - you can make them on the leader's emulsion side. A thin marker works best, but pen will do too. Even if you manage to brush it with your hand before it dries, you'll see a mess on your leader which should give you an idea something was there

Sirius Glass · Apr 22, 2016

tomfrh said:
Has anyone experienced film scratches from pulling it out? Or is it more of a theoretical risk!

I once had actual, not virtual, scratches that were made on factory loaded film. Cannot blame a bulk loader on that.

R.Gould · Apr 22, 2016

The only time I open a cassette is if I accidently rewind to hard and don't leave the leader out, I just cut the leader off and load the film, and never had a scratch on a film, for the 1% of time I wind too far I keep a bottle opener for opening the cassette
Richard

blockend · Apr 22, 2016

I bulk load black and white film into used colour negative cassettes, and am yet to have a scratch. The only scratches I've encountered are from old, re-usable, screw topped cassettes. Avoid re-using a manufacturer's cassette too many times (I stick at 5 or 6 re-fills), and ensure used film cassette goes from the camera into a clean film holder, not a pocket or corner of a camera bag.

Leader out and film pulled through the light trap for me. Machine processing was through the felt.

msage · Apr 22, 2016

tomfrh said:
Has anyone experienced film scratches from pulling it out? Or is it more of a theoretical risk!

Yes, it is a real issue. I have a few negatives ruined. At a lab that I worked at for 20+ years we learned to inspect the felt before pulling out the leader for any sign of dirt or damage. Any doubt we opened the cassette. Solved any issued.
BTW, that is the other reason I don't bulk load ( the first reason is that my time is limited and would rather use the time to photograph or print, not bulk load film).

pentaxuser · Apr 22, 2016

tomfrh said:
Has anyone experienced film scratches from pulling it out? Or is it more of a theoretical risk!

No scratches and I have pulled out a lot of films in my 13 years of developing. The only issue might be grit getting into the velvet lip after you extract the cassette from the camera and before you try and retrieve the leader. If you store the cassette in a grit free container then the chances of grit will be very low or even non existent but if you think there might be a chance of grit then pass a sticky "post-it note" under the lips. Those of us with auto-rewind cameras cannot stop the leader disappearing anyway.

I have on occasion had to prise off the end of a cassette when the retriever has been unable to pull out the leader but then I find that without the cassette the film is more difficult to feed onto the reel.

Others' mileage many vary of course

pentaxuser

GarageBoy · Apr 22, 2016

I pull, because it's easier to manage in a changing bag - I can decorner the leader first too

ColColt · Apr 22, 2016

I would imagine any microscopic dust/dirt on the velvet would be on the surface that could easily be blown off with good 'ol Dust-Off prior to pulling the film out. To each his own though.

foc · Apr 22, 2016

I own a minilab and have used 35mm leader card C41 processors for the last 26 years. We extract the film tongue from the cassette, cut it straight and splice it to the leader card and load the processor. The machine then pulls the film through the chemicals and cuts the film end. The only place the film is touched during the whole process is first when it exits the cassette (dry) and then in the chemicals (wet) the film edge touches a guide and when it exits each tank it is touched by a squeegee (we wash and clean these every day).

In all the years I have never had a film scratched by the processor or the film cassette (we maintain our machine to a high standard). Ofcourse as was mentioned before, we inspect the film cassette felt for grit prior to processing.

Svenedin · Apr 22, 2016

I have always popped the canisters with a bottle opener but I am considering using a leader retrieval tool for certain films. I had a real fight with some Kodak T-Max 400 recently. The cap almost seemed almost welded on compared to the Ilford films I usually use. I haven't done it for years but I did cut myself quite badly on the sharp edges of the canister once so that is a possible reason for using a retrieval tool instead. I don't recall whether the blood had any effect on the emulsion but of course you can't check how bad the cut is until the film is safely in the tank and the lights go back on.

tomfrh · Apr 22, 2016

Ok, enough of you have said it's ok to pull it that I'll use this method, checking for any grit beforehand.

Thanks for the feedback

canvassy · Apr 22, 2016

I could never get a church key to work for me. I use a pliers instead and just pull the top of the canister off.

tomfrh · Apr 22, 2016

canvassy said:
I use a pliers instead and just pull the top of the canister off.

I might try this method! Always happy to use hammer or pliers to fix something...

removed account4 · Apr 22, 2016

i take film out of the cassette, i find it no bother to use
a can opener in the dark, but i know people who do the leader.
it makes me nervous, i was always told if there was "dust"on the felt
it could scratch all the film, not sure if that was just a load of sheepshank though ...
not to mention JOBO has fun daylight tank

so using the leader can't be that bad

DWThomas · Apr 22, 2016

canvassy said:
I could never get a church key to work for me. I use a pliers instead and just pull the top of the canister off.

Yes, I actually use a substantial pair of diagonal cutters. Grip the edge of the crimped end cap between the cutter blades and use a rolling motion to just peel the cap off like the old sardine cans. Back in the 1950s and 60s before they started crimping the caps, I used to hold the cartridge in my fingers and smack the extended spool end against a hard table top which would pop the opposite end off handily.

Xmas · Apr 23, 2016

DWThomas said:
Yes, I actually use a substantial pair of diagonal cutters. Grip the edge of the crimped end cap between the cutter blades and use a rolling motion to just peel the cap off like the old sardine cans. Back in the 1950s and 60s before they started crimping the caps, I used to hold the cartridge in my fingers and smack the extended spool end against a hard table top which would pop the opposite end off handily.

Efke still used sprung on cassettes up to their final finishing run.

They were ok till you dropped them on the wrong end.

Xmas · Apr 23, 2016

tomfrh said:
Ok, enough of you have said it's ok to pull it that I'll use this method, checking for any grit beforehand.

Thanks for the feedback

Lots of people use it. I don't cause to worried about 72 frames on one film.

You won't necessarily see grit just keep cassettes in factory tubs.

But independently you need to keep the inside of the camera clean as the film is wound back into the cassette inside the camera.

Dust won't help, or bits of foam.

As well you need to remove any film shards eg if you tear a sprocket hole. Cause a focal plane shutter can get indigestion on a film shard, or bit of foam.

I need to use a film squeegee cause of water quality and not had scratches yet. You need to clean it before use every time.

Bulk loading is no more likely to cause scratches if you use loaders and cassettes without velvet traps.

I do filter stock dev and hypo cause I get chips of film on negatives!

miha · Apr 23, 2016

It's not about scratching film; film leader out = unexposed, film leader in = exposed. Therefore I always crack open the cassette.

R.Gould · Apr 23, 2016

I learnt many years ago to simply tear the leader, torn leader exposed, untorn unexposed. cut leader in dark pull film and load no problem and yet to scratch a film, after 55 years of developing 35mm film, much easier then trying to open the cassette by feel in the dark
Richard

miha · Apr 23, 2016

R.Gould said:
much easier then trying to open the cassette by feel in the dark
Richard

As easy as opening your favourite Ale

Developing: Pull out leader vs. opening cassette?

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