Developing: Pull out leader vs. opening cassette?

tomfrh · Apr 21, 2016

I mainly use 120 film and havent developed much 35mm. I dont have a cassette opener, and I leave my leader out when rewinding (for mid roll changes).

Can I just pull the film out when loading the tank? Can it damage the film if you do it wrong? Eg. scratch it?

Sirius Glass · Apr 21, 2016

I use a can opener or a cassette opener to open the 35mm cassette to process the 35mm film. I would rather do that than risk scratching the film by pulling the film out by the leader. I completely rewind the 35mm film to avoid accidentally double exposing the film.

CropDusterMan · Apr 21, 2016

Well, the film is leaving the canister once during camera operation, then going back in once during rewind...I figure, why add one more time?
I always open the spool up...also, it's a good idea to get one of these little guys to put your film in post exposure, instead of loose in a pocket....

They keep the film clean...or just use the empty canister.

Arklatexian · Apr 21, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
I use a can opener or a cassette opener to open the 35mm cassette to process the 35mm film. I would rather do that than risk scratching the film by pulling the film out by the leader. I completely rewind the 35mm film to avoid accidentally double exposing the film.

I would suggest that you narrow the name of the opener from can opener to possibly beer can opener, or maybe church key. Sirius glass it sounds like you have been there, done that, as have most of the rest of us and, of course, as usual, you are right on target.....Regards!

Gerald C Koch · Apr 21, 2016

The problem with pulling the film a second time is that if there is any grit in the velvet light trap it could scratch the film. It's safer to open the cassette.

ColColt · Apr 21, 2016

The only time I've had to open a cassette for developing the film was when I got a little over exuberant with rewinding and rewound the entire film in the cassette. Any other time I leave a little sticking out to wind onto the reels. Knock on wood, I don't recall getting scratches on the film before.

After I expose the roll it goes into the film can it came in till processing.

Xmas · Apr 22, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
I use a can opener or a cassette opener to open the 35mm cassette to process the 35mm film. I would rather do that than risk scratching the film by pulling the film out by the leader. I completely rewind the 35mm film to avoid accidentally double exposing the film.

Ditto cept I use Swiss Army knife.

williaty · Apr 22, 2016

When developing in a tank, I've always just stuck my fingertips into the mouth of the canister and then peeled towards the "top" side (the one with the flat spot before it curves around). It takes very little force to open the canister like an old tuna can, no tools required.

When I worked in the lab, the machine pulled the film out of the canister itself. We had to use a little film leader retriever tool to suck the tongue back out, tape that to a plastic card the machine could grab hold of, and then put the whole mess into the machine. The machine would cut the canister off the end of the film and spit it out the bottom of the machine once the end of the film was reached.

John Bragg · Apr 22, 2016

I always used to just pull the film out of the cassette but since getting into Nikon F100 and F90x I have had to pop the cassettes open. I also agree that there is less chance of film damage doing it this way. Felt makes a good light trap but also a good dirt trap and there is always a possibility of grit or small film fragments getting lodged there and running a scratch the length of an entire film.

tomfrh · Apr 22, 2016

Has anyone experienced film scratches from pulling it out? Or is it more of a theoretical risk!

hoffy · Apr 22, 2016

I once caught the edge of the film on the edge of the open canister..... Maybe I just have an unusual talent!

KennethLundgren · Apr 22, 2016

I never rewind it completely (manually) in the canister, I found it hard to opend so I just leave it like unexposed but fold it to mark as exposed. And its easier to prepare cut it before darkroom exercise, well I cut a tiny bit in corners to to avoid struggles. Never thought about scratches or seen anyone either.

Steve Roberts · Apr 22, 2016

I always open the cassette rather than take the risk, theoretical or not, of putting a tramline down the film by hauling it on a third journey through the light trap. However, I never wind the film right back into the cassette as I've always believed the light trap to work best when it has a piece of film protruding from it. To prevent accidental double exposure I simply tear off the tongue.

Steve

PaulWA · Apr 22, 2016

I pull it out, as the cassettes ruined my bar blade! I was scared the first time, but I've done a good twenty or so rolls like it and have not had any problems.

That said, 35mm film is snapshot to me so even if it did get a wee scratch I wouldn't be too worried. I've had none, though, after rewinding all but the tip of the leader, I put the film in a black canister to keep it clean - white means not exposed, black means exposed.

Edit: I would not recommend anyone do it to important film just in case. A single piece of grit could scratch a whole roll, though the same is true pre exposure I supposed. I keep mine clean by ensuring they're always in a canister.

David Allen · Apr 22, 2016

KennethLundgren said:
I never rewind it completely (manually) in the canister, I found it hard to opend so I just leave it like unexposed but fold it to mark as exposed. And its easier to prepare cut it before darkroom exercise, well I cut a tiny bit in corners to to avoid struggles. Never thought about scratches or seen anyone either.

I also never wound the film the whole way back. This makes it easy to cut off the leader and slightly trim the lead edges to facilitate smoother loading into Paterson reels. I then prepare the reels with the film inserted up to the ball bearings on the Paterson reels (this was particularly useful when I used to process 8 rolls of 35mm at a time for commercial work). I never had any problems with scratching and nor do my students who all start with 35mm (I have only used 120 for the past 16 years for my own work). However, I have seen scratching on friends films and this has always been the result of two things:

Putting exposed film (where they have wound the film all the way back into the cassette) into a pocket without returning to the canister.
People who bulk load using reusable cassettes.

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

Ricardo Miranda · Apr 22, 2016

tomfrh said:
Has anyone experienced film scratches from pulling it out? Or is it more of a theoretical risk!

Hi!

I use mostly re-usable cassettes, you know the ones Ilford used to do until the 90s?
That's because I bulk load my film.
I use cassettes that are 30-50 years old.
I just developed 2 rolls, one comes from a 45 year old cassette. Well, it said expiry in 1971 on the box.
Now, pass me the electronic microscope. Humm, I can't see nothing.
Some people just panic too much.
Just clean the felt between uses and you're good to go.

Ricardo Miranda · Apr 22, 2016

David Allen said:
People who bulk load using reusable cassettes.

Nope. And even if there were tiny scratches, do they really matter? Do they show in a print?
Not on mines.

David Allen · Apr 22, 2016

Ricardo Miranda said:
Nope. And even if there were tiny scratches, do they really matter? Do they show in a print?
Not on mines.

Glad that you have not had any problems.

I just wanted to point out that I have seen problems with people who bulk load as opposed to using films loaded by manufacturers. Of course, there are many photographers who all take different approaches and most do not have a problem whichever way they work.

In answer to the OPs question, I personally have never seen a problem leaving the leader out and loading film onto the spiral by pulling the film back through the gate EXCEPT when people have not ensured that everything remains clean (i.e. putting films into a pocket without placing it in a canister).

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

Rick A · Apr 22, 2016

What minimal amounts of 35 mm I use, is spooled from a bulk roll. I don't need no stinkin' church key. Really, I use reloadable cassettes and the ends just pop off with finger pressure.

Ricardo Miranda · Apr 22, 2016

David Allen said:
EXCEPT when people have not ensured that everything remains clean (i.e. putting films into a pocket without placing it in a canister).

Precisely!

guangong · Apr 22, 2016

As noted already，swiss army knife bottle opener for factory loaded cassettes，however，as for reloading， i use leitz and zeiss reloadable cassettes exclusively，sooner or later reussble csssttes that use felt will collect grit，i try to leave a little of the exposed film stick out to provide a better light seal， this is an absolue necessity when working with subminature formats，

mooseontheloose · Apr 22, 2016

tomfrh said:
Has anyone experienced film scratches from pulling it out? Or is it more of a theoretical risk!

I have, every time I've tried it (I don't bulk roll). So I stick with the tried and true method of completely rewinding the film and opening the cassette to develop. So much so, that if I leave the leader out (for a mid-roll change, for example), I often end up double-exposing the roll because I assume it's unexposed (for some reason, my notes on the canister get faded or wiped off which is why this happens).

canuhead · Apr 22, 2016

I leave the leader out but rip it off so it's square(ish) = exposed. Also crack the cassette when loading into dev tanks but I don't see any harm in pulling it out once more as that's how happy snap labs work. Film is taped to a leader that gets fed and film is pulled from cassette then a guillotine cuts the cassette off. This is why people are able to grab old cassettes from labs to reuse when bulk loading. So go ahead and don't worry about tbh

narsuitus · Apr 22, 2016

tomfrh said:
Has anyone experienced film scratches from pulling it out? Or is it more of a theoretical risk!

Once, I ran into a problem with scratched film when I was shooting a very thin emulsion black & white film.

To avoid scratches in the film I bulk loaded, I used Nikon felt-free cassettes in my Nikon F and F2.

Nikon F2 AM-1 Film Cassettes +1 by Narsuitus, on Flickr

Xmas · Apr 22, 2016

If you don't wind the film back into the cassette you run the risk of having 72 exposures per cassette.

It is easy to make an extractor out of scrap 35mm film - Google.

If you then want to keep the cassette intact you can extract the leader.

Some bulk loader persons recycle mini lab cassettes useing the 1cm of protruding film the mini labs leave. With Pressure sensitive tape both sides of butt join.

If you did get a scratch it makes wet printing pretty impossible. Lots of clone tool for hybrid types.

The only scratches I get (even bulk loading) are from rust spots on pressure plates! Note I don't recycle mini lab cassettes.

It is way easy to pull the film off the reel even with factory loads, or strip sprocket holes, etc. at frame 37 when you need a spare body or changing bag. Note current Kodak factory cassettes are secure, you strip the sprocket holes instead.

Developing: Pull out leader vs. opening cassette?

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