Developing issues

Arturo Carmona · May 5, 2020

Hello!

I had some troubles when developing my last two rolls of B&W Rollei RPX 100 120. Seems like small withe and black dots appear all over the negative (it is noticiable in the negative itself). I have included some pictures of it.
I developed it with a solution of 1+1 of Kodak D76 powder mixed 1 hour before developing. The fixer used is kodak T-Max that I have since January ( I use fresh solution each time).

What do you think it may be?

Thank you all!!

pentaxuser · May 5, 2020

So on the negatives the white dots in your pictures are black and the black dots in your pictures are white? I ask that question so we do not have to argue about the colour of the dots on the negatives. Is this the first time you have used D76 at 1+1 or has this been the developer used with previous Rollei RPX 120 and without problems.
Answers to these questions may help to decide what is the problem

Thanks

pentaxuser

Arturo Carmona · May 5, 2020

Hi @pentaxuser , thank you so much for your reply!

I have been using D76 for a while with 35mm but never before with 120. This specific solution has been used only twice, for 2 different rolls of 120, just after developing one I reused the quemicals for developing the next, however, spots are the same at both rolls, there is no difference.

The workflow I have used it has been the same as when I work with other 35mm stocks. It is true that I made the mix of developer just before the process but I would swear I mixed it well. May be the temperature? It might have been a bit warm by then.

Yes, spots appear the opposite color at the negatives. I attach the same picture positive,negative and portion.

I am running a couple of test with 35mm at a different stock so I can check if it happens again.

Arturo Carmona · May 5, 2020

Here are the pictures I have told you!

Doremus Scudder · May 5, 2020

Backing paper problem? This seems to have been going around lately; mottling on the film from the ink on the backing paper reacting with the emulsion. It seems to happen in humid conditions mostly.

Maybe someone with first-hand experience will chime in.

Doremus

MattKing · May 5, 2020

There are two types of problems with backing paper that seem to be more prevalent recently - problems with the inked numbers and letters, and problems with mottling.
This looks like the latter problem.
The modern papers seem to be much more prone to the sort of humidity and heat based problems than in the past.

Arturo Carmona · May 5, 2020

Oh!! Yes it seems that kind of issue. I have found a video in which it is explained pretty well, just in case someone else come here looking for answers to the same problem. I am going to mail back to the company where I purchased it to see what they have to say.

Thank you so much guys!!! I really appreciate it!

harlequin · May 5, 2020

Dear Arturo,

Although not an expert, I have been using d76 for over 40 years, here are some tips, some of which I have learned the hard way.

A) under no circumstances have I used d76 mixed from powder in 1 hour, as it must be mixed at over 120 degrees farenheit to fully dissolve the powder with aggressive stirring, then I let the contents sit in dark photo bottle for 24 hours, then and only then do I use the developer, by then it has cooled down to the recommended 68-70 degrees F for best results. What you are seeing is a chemical mottling, as a result of chemistry not fully mixed, hence the hotspots....

Take another roll same exposure variables and run it again thru chemistry after stirring again, @68 degrees F, I suspect your results will be more satisfactory, backing paper issues aside.

Perhaps run the developer thru a paper coffee filter, it’s amazing what you can find in freshly mixed d76.

Wishing you better results, be Safe!

Harlequin

MattKing · May 5, 2020

That is one manifestation of the problem, but I don't think it is the most common one.

Arturo Carmona · May 5, 2020

Mmm ok,It is true that I did not let 24h in between and that could be the problem as well. Is there some way to determine what could be the exact problem here,in order to discard one (not fully mixed) or the other option? (Backing paper)

Bormental · May 5, 2020

I am too not a chemist, but what immediately jumps out in your description is going from 55C to 20C in just one hour. This is actually what used to annoy me about D76, having to wait half a day for it to cool down, until I switched (well, obvious now) to "mix in the evening, develop in the morning" routine. How did you do it?

Arturo Carmona · May 5, 2020

@Bormental In fact As I said I am considering it as one of the main factors of the issue. The truth is that I did not check the temperature, I just gave it for granted (my mistake). So, I suppose I have to assume it is more likely to be that, right?
Thank you for all your replies!! It is a really great support!!

koraks · May 6, 2020

This looks like a backing paper problem and not related to the developing chemistry. The mottling pattern is a tell-tale sign, as is the recurring pattern shown in the image of the table tennis tables.

Agulliver · May 6, 2020

I am something of a chemist and I use ID-11 (=D76) as my most common developer....I will dissolve the powder in warm water and not use it until the next day. I want to ensure the powder is completely dissolved and the liquid is back to room temperature. At a push I would probably mix in the morning and use late afternoon but my thought process tends to be "OK I've got as many rolls out of that bottle as I am comfy with....I'll mix up another bottle for my next session" (which will be at least 24 hours away, possibly a week or more.

Having said that, the effect shown here does look somewhat like mottling caused by backing paper issues. It's usually caused by high humidity and sometimes by storing rollfilm in a fridge or freezer without it's original sealed packet....

Arturo Carmona · May 6, 2020

@Agulliver Yes, I am not going to develop that fast anymore. I had never done that before but I recently acquired my medium format camera and I was impatient to check everything worked fine, so I probably messed up! So the effects produced by backing paper issues are the same as not fully mixing the chemicals, right? I am learning a lot with this post!

Thanks you all!

koraks · May 6, 2020

Arturo Carmona said:
So the effects produced by backing paper issues are the same as not fully mixing the chemicals, right?

No. Again, the possibility that this is a developer-related issue is very remote indeed and in my opinion rather random conjecture. Not to put anyone down, but it just doesn't fit these symptoms in any plausible way.

pentaxuser · May 6, 2020

I do wonder if the developer is the cause of the problem per se. However I have just had a look at Ilford's equivalent which is ID11 and there would appear to be some advantages to it in comparison with D76.
1. You dissolve part A into three quarters of the final solution at 40 C or 104 F degrees which seem to be appreciably cooler that that needed for D76 and you then add cold water to make the solution up to the required stock amount. So allowing for the two powders which will lower the temperature anyway as they are at ambient temperature plus cold water of close to say 200ml for a 1litre stock this should easily lower the temperature to 20-24 C
2. There appears to be no warning from Ilford to wait for 24 hours before using it so I assume that whatever prevents the use of D76 for 24 hours does not apply to ID11

Might be worth a switch

pentaxuser

MattKing · May 6, 2020

Freshly mixed D-76 is a bit more active at first. If you wait 24 hours it stabilizes to a level of activity that stays stable for a long time.
So if you want consistent results - particularly in a commercial lab environment - you need to wait a day before using it.
There are no other reasons to wait that I am aware of.

Sirius Glass · May 6, 2020

Arturo Carmona said:
Oh!! Yes it seems that kind of issue. I have found a video in which it is explained pretty well, just in case someone else come here looking for answers to the same problem. I am going to mail back to the company where I purchased it to see what they have to say.

Thank you so much guys!!! I really appreciate it!

Thank you for posting this informative video.

Arturo Carmona · May 6, 2020

@pentaxuser Great advise!! Definetly I´ll also try Ilford´s ID11!! Altought I always liked D76, maybe it is time to try new products as well! Thanks!
@MattKing Nice info!! I didn´t know it! It does have sense. Thanks!
@SiriusGlass Your welcome!

Andrew O'Neill · May 6, 2020

Looks like dreaded backing paper issue.

Bormental · May 7, 2020

I do not shoot 120. What can one do to avoid having this backing paper issue? Avoid storing film in the fridge?

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