Developing film myself for the first time

[keenmaster486]

I finally decided to stop wasting so much money on B&W development and just do it myself. It's just orders of magnitude less expensive to do it myself.

So I got a Super System 4 tank because I want to be able to do both 35mm and medium format stuff. I've read the instructions, watched some instructional videos, and practiced the process dry.

The developer and fixer are cheap LegacyPro stuff. I'm using them solely because they are cheap. With color film I care deeply about the image/color quality, but with B&W I care much less and mostly want the composition/subject matter. Plus, it's just developer and fixer, right? I'm not a professional.

Anyway, here are some questions that have been floating around in my head:

1. I have two 1-gallon plastic jugs that were used to hold maple syrup and sesame oil. Would these be sufficient to hold the developer and fixer, or should I look for something more substantial?

2. Can I just pour the developer and fixer back into their respective containers after use? And how many uses could I get out of them then?

3. How important is it to include a "stop bath" wash step in between developer and fixer? I don't want to do this if I don't have to.

4. Exactly how sensitive is your average B&W film to development times? My first roll is T-Max but the subsequent ones will probably just be cheap Arista.EDU 100.

5. I think I can scan the negatives in with my standard all-in-one scanner if I use some kind of backlight - obviously not the best quality method but it just has to be good enough for 4x6 prints and digital sharing. Any thoughts on this?

Anyway, I'm pretty excited about this. I have one frame left on my roll of T-Max. I may just shoot it today and try to develop it

 

[Konical]

Good Afternoon, Keenmaster486,

1--Almost any glass or plastic container which is sturdy and doesn't leak is fine as long as previous contents have been thoroughly cleaned out. Glass may be preferable for developers since it's impervious while some plastics aren't.
2--You can return the solutions to the containers, but using developer as a one-shot is generally preferred. For example, you can mix T-max Developer in 1:4, 1:7, or 1:9 ratio with water, then discard after use. With HC-110, common ratios are 1:15 or 1:31; with D-76, 1:1 and 1:3 are often used. With experience, you will probably come to prefer one or more developers over others. Fixer can be re-used as long as you check the capacity and make sure it's fresh enough.
3--Some prefer just water; others use stop bath. It's mostly a matter of personal preference.
4--Some films are a bit more sensitive to processing variations than others. T-Max is often thought of as being among those, but I usually just think of it as no particular problem, just something to use for adjustment to contrast variations in different subjects. Again, experience will help. Just be precise with time and temperature and consistent with agitation patterns. Starting with manufacturers' recommendations usually serves well.
5--No thoughts. I make contact prints.

Hope that is useful.

Konical

 

[seezee]

1. I have two 1-gallon plastic jugs that were used to hold maple syrup and sesame oil. Would these be sufficient to hold the developer and fixer, or should I look for something more substantial?

I would be worried about contamination, especially on the oil container, unless it's been thoroughly de-greased. Depending on how long your chemicals are to be stored, you should probably be using either amber glass or opaque (brown or black) PET (polyethylene terephthalate) bottles.

2. Can I just pour the developer and fixer back into their respective containers after use? And how many uses could I get out of them then?

Depends on the developer; some developers are "one-shot", some are "replenishing", some are multi-use. Google tells my yours is one-shot, so no.

Most fix can be reused, but not indefinitely. You need to keep track of how many rolls you've put through it or use an exhaustion test strip to determine if it's still good. It's still a good idea to filter it (use a photographic funnel with a built-in strainer, or a coffee filter) before rebottling. See this thread.

3. How important is it to include a "stop bath" wash step in between developer and fixer? I don't want to do this if I don't have to.

A stop bath stops developing and also prevents developer carryover to your fix, which would shorten its life. If you want to save money, skipping this step is not how to do it. You could use plain or distilled water for this step if you don't want to buy extra chemicals. Some folks make a weak acetic acid (vinegar) solution for this step. If you ever switch to a staining developer (e.g., Pyro), you will want to an acid stop bath.

4. Exactly how sensitive is your average B&W film to development times? My first roll is T-Max but the subsequent ones will probably just be cheap Arista.EDU 100.

Depends on the film and the chemistry. There are a million combinations with a million answers. Chemical temperatures are pretty important, too, unless you are doing stand development.

5. I think I can scan the negatives in with my standard all-in-one scanner if I use some kind of backlight - obviously not the best quality method but it just has to be good enough for 4x6 prints and digital sharing. Any thoughts on this?

For sharing, maybe. For printing, probably not. And be prepared to do a lot of tonal adjustments either way. How do you intend to rig a backlight? Sounds like more trouble and expense than buying a used film scanner.

Anyway, I'm pretty excited about this. I have one frame left on my roll of T-Max. I may just shoot it today and try to develop it

Have fun! My advice is to research, research, and research more, but don't research so much it keeps you from going out and shooting. Read the forums, use your Google-foo, and remember, no question is stupid.

 

[HiHoSilver]

Others are better for advice, but bravo for getting wet! Its a hoot & I think You'll love it.

 

[flavio81]

Commander Keen, here are my answers:

Anyway, here are some questions that have been floating around in my head:

1. I have two 1-gallon plastic jugs that were used to hold maple syrup and sesame oil. Would these be sufficient to hold the developer and fixer, or should I look for something more substantial?

IMO the smaller the container, the better, so you can always divide a preparation (say, 1gl of developer) in smaller bottles (i.e. 4 bottles), so you use one while the other 3 remain unopened until needed.

2. Can I just pour the developer and fixer back into their respective containers after use? And how many uses could I get out of them then?

Yes,
For the developer, usually the manufacturer tells you the "capacity", that is, how many films you can theoretically process with a given volume of developer. Some tell you also in how much % you should enlarge the development time to compensate. Also, this assumes that your bottle of developer is not sitting on the shelf and oxidating over weeks or months...
AND it assumes that you are not using the developer in its "one shot" form. For example D-76 when used diluted 1:3 with water, is a "one-shot" developer; that is, you use it on your tank and then you immediately discard it.

For fixer, i'm not so sure, in theory you can use it while the fixer is able to do its job, and there are some films that exhaust fixer more than others. You can always use a strip of film to test your fixer...

3. How important is it to include a "stop bath" wash step in between developer and fixer? I don't want to do this if I don't have to.

There are threads on this, but the idea is to neutralize the alkalinity of the developer before putting it into the fixer (which is not alkaline). So as pointed out, it helps to preserve the chemicals.

4. Exactly how sensitive is your average B&W film to development times? My first roll is T-Max but the subsequent ones will probably just be cheap Arista.EDU 100.

There are films that are more sensitive and others that are less sensitive. Arista EDU 100 = Fomapan 100 = it is a sensitive film (see datasheet where you can see the contrast increase versus development time). Which means that it "builds contrast quickly". The euphemism for this is "responds well to changes in development time".

5. I think I can scan the negatives in with my standard all-in-one scanner if I use some kind of backlight - obviously not the best quality method but it just has to be good enough for 4x6 prints and digital sharing. Any thoughts on this?

What is an "all in one scanner"? Flatbed scanner?

If you have a DSLR, try "DSLR scanning".

Flatbed scanners, even the Epson ones made for film, suck the quality out of the photograph. Be it resolution, color detail, sharpness, chromatic aberrations, freedom from artifacts, grain aliasing... many of such things suffer and you have a pale digital representation of what is really in the negative.

For 4x6" detail will be just fine with a flatbed scanner but it won't be as good as an optical print or as a print done using a really good scanner.

 

[mehguy]

1. Yes you could do that. Just make sure it doesn't leak and make sure the cap is tight.

2. Depends on the developer. But you definitely do not want to mix the stock solution with the used diluted solution. For fixer, it can be reused but you should keep the used fixer in a separate container and each time before developing a roll, clip off a part of the film leader and put it into the used fixer. If it does not clear within 2-3 minutes, dump it. If it does, triple the time it took to clear and that is your fixing time.

3. The difference between a water bath and a proper stop bath is that a stop bath halts the development immediately and the water bath just takes the excess developer off the roll. A stop bath makes developing a lot more consistent. White vinegar can also be used as a stop bath, dilute it 1+4 but in the long run might come out to be more expensive than just buying a bottle of stop bath.

4. Depends on the film. You should always get the proper developing times from the datasheet.

5. You might not get the best quality this way. It might be worth it to buy a flat bed scanner that comes with film holders.

 

[asdfmatt]

These answers already have been given basically, but another perspective/broken record:

1. I used a plastic jug from distilled water and eventually my fixer leaked out into my bathroom cabinet. I was using half-gallon amber growlers (from a microbrewery, of course), it's ideal to remove the air the best you can (as I would with the plastic, which lead to the weakening and leaking). I have my fixer in a sturdier gallon jug formerly used for white vinegar and after two weeks, no issues. As for the next question, your chemicals last longer the less oxygen they're exposed to.

2. Developer is rarely used full-strength, so you'd want to avoid mixing the old developer solution back into fresh solution for this reason. You could in theory disregard that, but would need to adjust solution strength and developing time using some crazy math you probably don't care to bother with. Fixer, on the other hand is more or less reusable until it isn't. You'll know when it's going bad if your film starts to fog after sitting for the recommended 5 minutes. You can use test strip for that. I've never really exhausted fixer 100% but it's possible after a few dozen/hundred or so rolls, I would assume.

3. If you don't want to use stop bath you should plan on washing your film for at least half an hour to ensure the developer is fully rinsed. Your call. What is your time worth to you?

4. In my experience, more sensitive to temperature change than development times. Warmer developer shortens developing time (vice versa with colder developer), so if you couple any variables one way or the other, you can unintentionally push or pull the film by a full stop or more. Get a thermometer - at this stage you're results need to provide a "printable" negative which gives you latitude to do any other manipulation during enlarging/photoshop if you're scanning...

5. I have an attachment of 120 (medium format) scanned "contact sheet" from a "standard" flatbed scanner. I wouldn't really bother enlarging or any of that. DSLR scanning is apparently a good method I've been seeing kicked around. The second attachment is of a frame in that roll, using an Epson Perfection 1660 from the early 2000's that you can get on Ebay for like $40 now, I think scanned in at 3,600 DPI, which is more than sufficient.

 

[MattKing]

Over here, empty soda pop bottles can be good storage containers for chemicals. Their quality depends a lot on how well their lids seal.
At the beginning, you should use your developer diluted and one shot. Follow the manufacturer's recommendations. As you gain experience, I am a hearty advocate for using replenished developer - X-Tol in particular. Try for a film/developer/dilution combination that will give you a reasonably long (> 5 minutes) development time so that, along with a decent thermometer, you have good control over the results.
Fixer should be re-used. Learn and follow the manufacturer's capacity recommendations, and for film, use a clip test regularly. This "Article" describes how I use fixer, and a clip test: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
I really believe in stop bath. If you don't use it, you need to vigorously rinse the film in multiple changes/flowing water between the developer and the fixer.
Well we don't talk about scanning here on APUG , I'm prepared to suggest that your all in one scanner may end up frustrating you.
A well printed 4x6 print from a scan is best if your scan is at least 1000 x 1500 pixels.

 

[LAG]

With color film I care deeply about the image/color quality, but with B&W I care much less and mostly want the composition/subject matter. Plus, it's just developer and fixer, right? I'm not a professional.

Sorry to hear that! Everything should be important, much more if your intention is to improve from now on ... but to each his own.

1. Jugs?

Clean, air-tight, light-sealed, child-proof, labeled, glass water bottles. Cool, dry & dark place.

2. developer and fixer after use? many uses

Follow manufacturer's recommendation for both.

3. stop bath

Stop bath is important. Stop bath (chemical) is cheap. Stop bath (water) is cheaper. Stop ... is up to you.

4. sensitive average B&W film

Trial & error "own" experimentation.

5. scan. Any thoughts on this?

My first immediate thought was "print". If you cannot, try to learn and do it just like all the rest: the best way possible

Anyway, I'm pretty excited about this

I wish you all the best!

Sorry I was brief!
Best!

 

[Sirius Glass]

I finally decided to stop wasting so much money on B&W development and just do it myself. It's just orders of magnitude less expensive to do it myself.
...

3. How important is it to include a "stop bath" wash step in between developer and fixer? I don't want to do this if I don't have to.

3. The difference between a water bath and a proper stop bath is that a stop bath halts the development immediately and the water bath just takes the excess developer off the roll. A stop bath makes developing a lot more consistent. White vinegar can also be used as a stop bath, dilute it 1+4 but in the long run might come out to be more expensive than just buying a bottle of stop bath.

Stop bath will stop development immediately. Water will not.
Stop bath will lengthen the fixer [hypo] life. Water will shorting it.
Stop bath with indicator is not only inexpensive, it tells you when the stop bath is going bad.

 

[keenmaster486]

Hey, thanks so much for all the replies fellas!

So, judging by this here:
Dead Link Removed
Should I mix a 1 gallon solution like it says, and then dilute it half water/half solution in the actual tank?

 

[MattKing]

Should I mix a 1 gallon solution like it says, and then dilute it half water/half solution in the actual tank?

Sounds like an excellent way to start.

 

[Luckless]

Containers that you mix chemistry up in do not need to be the ones you store them in. - Mixing up in a large container and then parting that off into smaller sealed bottles afterwards is a very handy way to work with your chemistry.

Trying to use part of a pre-mixed powered chemistry kit at a time to do a smaller batch is potentially a source of minor error.

Consistency is king. As much as photography is an art form, chemistry is still chemistry. Precision and accuracy of measurement to control variables will allow you to more easily refine your process and hone in on an effect or look that you like. It isn't the end of the world if you're a little sloppy in your timing and temperatures, but try to keep track of any variation you make even if you can't be perfect.

Also, making sure you get your order of chemistry correct is so much more important than +/-15 seconds on your timing. A slightly wrong time means a slightly wrong look, but you still have something to work with. Starting off with fixer means you have a scrap roll of film that isn't worth a lot to you.


Keep calm. Keep notes. Keep your gear clean and tidy, and be wary of dust. Good luck, and enjoy.

 

[Harry Stevens]

With color film I care deeply about the image/color quality, but with B&W I care much less and mostly want the composition/subject matter.

obviously not the best quality method but it just has to be good enough for 4x6 prints and digital sharing. Any thoughts on this?

Yes. My thoughts are why are you bothering with film in the first place?

 

[flavio81]

Hey, thanks so much for all the replies fellas!

So, judging by this here:
Dead Link Removed
Should I mix a 1 gallon solution like it says, and then dilute it half water/half solution in the actual tank?

What i'd do is: I'd mix 1gallon of stock solution, then fill 4 quart containers/bottles in a way they are filled to the top with no air, tightly capped.

And then, when I need to develop, open one of such containers, calculate how much I need (I.e. 250mL), and then dilute it before use (to prepare the working solution, i.e. 500mL).

When my "quart" is empty, then I open up the other bottle.

 

[keenmaster486]

Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of using multiple bottles Otherwise I would definitely do that. I'll just have to make do with a single bottle for each solution, with another "used fixer" bottle... is that okay?

 

[keenmaster486]

OK!! I did it.

Here was my process (for T-Max 400):
1. Develop for 12.5 minutes.
2. Water "stop bath"
3. Fix for 8 minutes.
4. Wash thoroughly.
5. Hang to dry.

I think I may not have fixed it long enough, as the film did not appear completely clear in between frames, BUT the film was slightly fogged because I was loading it on the reel in the closet, pitch dark, when my roommate came in and turned on the light outside. So there was a little bit of light coming in through the cracks, and the film being 400 ISO it probably fogged it. I'm going to have to put a lock on the light switch

But overall I think it was a success for first time developing:
Dead Link Removed
Now, after they dry, I'm going to try to scan them in. We'll see how well that works

 

[flavio81]

OK!! I did it.

Here was my process (for T-Max 400):
1. Develop for 12.5 minutes.
2. Water "stop bath"
3. Fix for 8 minutes.
4. Wash thoroughly.
5. Hang to dry.

I think I may not have fixed it long enough, as the film did not appear completely clear in between frames, BUT the film was slightly fogged because I was loading it on the reel in the closet, pitch dark, when my roommate came in and turned on the light outside. So there was a little bit of light coming in through the cracks, and the film being 400 ISO it probably fogged it. I'm going to have to put a lock on the light switch

But overall I think it was a success for first time developing:
Dead Link Removed
Now, after they dry, I'm going to try to scan them in. We'll see how well that works

You can re-fix. Re-fix and wash.
Tmax usually requires longer fixing times than usual.

 

[keenmaster486]

But does it require longer than 8 minutes? Because that was the recommended time on the fixer package.

Also, I'm glad there's someone here who gets my username reference. I shall now refer to you as Mortimer McMire.

 

[keenmaster486]

The first scan This is looking way better than I expected. I'm really thinking the slight unclearness between frames is purely fog from when my roommate turned on the light

EDIT: This is the Old Main building on the University of Colorado campus.

Dead Link Removed

 

[Mick Fagan]

Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of using multiple bottles Otherwise I would definitely do that. I'll just have to make do with a single bottle for each solution, with another "used fixer" bottle... is that okay?

I think you may be amazed at just what people around the world store their developer solutions in, as well as things like used fixer.

Attached are some of the multitude of glass containers I have stored film developer in. The brown bottle is full of D76 film developer, you can just make out some glass marbles in the bottom.

The second picture is my bucket of glass marbles. I have had them for around 40 years, you can see that most of them have marks from the rubbing with other marbles.

Basically when I need new film developer or fixer containers, I just grab what is currently going through the kitchen, hand clean, then run them through the dishwasher (mostly but not always the dishwasher). An important feature is to have a plastic sealing ring in the inside of the screw lid.

Before using any solution I have stored in these jars, bottles, or whatever they previously held, I filter the solution through a paper coffee filter sitting in a funnel. Which, in my part of the world, costs around $2.50 for a 40 pack.

Cheap as anything.

Mick.

 

[MattKing]

Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of using multiple bottles Otherwise I would definitely do that. I'll just have to make do with a single bottle for each solution, with another "used fixer" bottle... is that okay?

Four one litre pop bottles don't cost much or take much space.

 

[keenmaster486]

Well, you don't know just how limited my space really is

 

[MattKing]

I have some idea - I lived in student residence for at least one of the eight years I spent in (two different) batches of University learning.
But if you have room for a case of beer

 

[Jim Jones]

Long ago I wasted much time trying to scan negatives on a flatbed scanner that wasn't designed for the job. Even my Epson 700 does a poor job on 35mm.