Developing B&W negatives at 18 deg C instead of 20... newbie questions

pentaxuser · Sep 28, 2022

snusmumriken said:
. If your tap water was pretty cold, that might be an overnight job, I guess. So my question is: Does a 1:50 working solution of Rodinal suffer from standing around for that length of time - for instance, does it oxidise?

When I read this I had a vague notion that I had seen somewhere a statement about working solutions. Well I have found it. It is in my Rodinal instructions leaflet

Here's what it says: "When diluted for use, Rodinal only keeps for a short time and therefore should only be mixed immediately before use"

The "short time" is not specified as in minutes, hours, days and maybe if overnight was say only 8/9 hours it might be OK but I suspect and this is only my opinion that if overnight was say 12-15 hours then I'd have thought that this time exceeds Rodinal's definition of short time and introduces an element of risk at least

I have no experience of mixing and leaving overnight and have always used it immediately after I have mixed it so cannot furnish any info on such an experience

All I can say is that using it immediately has always worked fine

I hope this helps

pentaxuser

Pieter12 · Sep 28, 2022

pentaxuser said:
When I read this I had a vague notion that I had seen somewhere a statement about working solutions. Well I have found it. It is in my Rodinal instructions leaflet

Here's what it says: "When diluted for use, Rodinal only keeps for a short time and therefore should only be mixed immediately before use"

The "short time" is not specified as in minutes, hours, days and maybe if overnight was say only 8/9 hours it might be OK but I suspect and this is only my opinion that if overnight was say 12-15 hours then I'd have thought that this time exceeds Rodinal's definition of short time and introduces an element of risk at least

I have no experience of mixing and leaving overnight and have always used it immediately after I have mixed it so cannot furnish any info on such an experience

All I can say is that using it immediately has always worked fine

I hope this helps

pentaxuser

I always wait until just before processing to add the Rodinal to the water. There is so little of it, it should not affect the temperature.

Sirius Glass · Sep 28, 2022

snusmumriken said:
That's clever, but there is another way. This is what I use, a 1ml plastic disposable syringe attached to a 1ml plastic disposable pipette via surgical tubing. Anyone in the medical/veterinary profession should be able to provide these items. Apologies for the rubbish picture.
View attachment 317503

I like the photograph too. I also thought of hockey.

mshchem · Sep 28, 2022

MattKing said:
Indeed, I do: https://www.photrio.com/forum/resources/making-and-using-a-kodak-photo-flo-stock-solution.396/

I found a US pint of 91% IPA in my darkroom cabinet, I'm going to make a batch.

Sirius Glass · Sep 28, 2022

mshchem said:
I found a US pint of 91% IPA in my darkroom cabinet, I'm going to make a batch.

You have your own brewery at home?

Jay Schrotenboer · Sep 28, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
You have your own brewery at home?

I would not recommend drinking that version of IPA (isopropyl alcohol)
Other that that it is not that hard to make a drinkable IPA at home (India pale ale), you should try

mshchem · Sep 28, 2022

I do miss a great ale. I gave up beer to stay alive, now I'm trying to give up chocolate for the same reason. I'm running out of stuff to give up.

Sirius Glass · Sep 28, 2022

mshchem said:
I do miss a great ale. I gave up beer to stay alive, now I'm trying to give up chocolate for the same reason. I'm running out of stuff to give up.

For Lent I always give up abstinence.

mshchem · Sep 28, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
For Lent I always give up abstinence.

Good call!

Juan Valdenebro · Oct 7, 2022

BigMackCam said:
Hi folks... I'm hoping for some advice from more experienced home developers - well, more experienced than me, which probably means most of you good folks!

I started shooting and home-developing black and white negative film late last year, though I haven't done a great deal of it yet (only half a dozen rolls or so). I've been shooting mostly Fomapan 200 at box speed, developing with a spiral tank in Fomadon R09 (~ "Rodinal") 1+50 @ approximately 20 deg C room temperature - using Massive Dev Chart timings (10 mins) and agitation (gentle inversions) - and achieving generally satisfactory - dare I say pleasing - results.

With the alarming increases in energy pricing here in the UK, I'm now maintaining the average temperature in my home closer to 18 deg C rather than 20 (it felt rather cool at first, but my family and I are used to it now ). I haven't yet developed any film since making this change, and I'd like to give myself the best chance of success when I do, using solution that's stabilised at room temperature.

For the first time, I've just looked at Massive Dev Chart's "Time/Temp Converter" tool and Ilford's Time/Temp Chart. Apparently, my 10 minutes development time at 20 deg C will increase to a little over 12 minutes at 18 deg C... but I'm drawn to MDC's warning:

"These conversions are approximate and are based on standard black and white film in normal developer. Films and developers vary widely so you should always test any time/temp combination prior to using it on important work"

None of my "work" is especially important - it's all hobby stuff purely for my own enjoyment and learning, and failure isn't a big deal - but obviously I prefer to succeed

So... after that long pre-amble... my questions to you more-experienced film developers are as follows:

1) Should developing at 18 deg C pose any significant problems?

2) How reliable do you find the timings in Massive Dev Chart's Time / Temp Converter tool?

3) Has anyone used the same combination of film stock - Fomapan 200 - and developer - Rodinal - at lower than 20 deg C, and if so, at what dilution / timing / agitation?

Many thanks in advance for any advice, opinions or thoughts on this - and apologies for any newbie errors (choice of forum, terminology etc.) in the above

Hello,
18 degrees Celsius is a very good temperature for sure, talking about films and developers in a general way. And Rodinal works extremely well at 17 and 16 too. Any temperature chart will guide you perfectly: you'll add a bit more development time over your own functional times at 20 degrees, and everything will be more than fine.
About the MDC, well, it gathers lots of different types of information, both from manufacturers and individuals: apart from wrong data, recommended times are in general a) close to 15% longer than those needed for condensor enlargers, b) just starting guides for your own testing, and c) commonly right for bright overcast and not for darker and dull overcast with low contrast, and they're never for sun. So there's not a single development time: you'll learn how to treat film differently depending on the scene and its light.
Finally, standard developers (metol+hydroquinone, MQ) are called like that because they are great for most situations, and they allow you to do several things with a film: mastering any classic grain film, with any MQ developer (like D-76 and ID-11) is the fastest way to really understand film. If you use, say, HP5+ and D-76 exclusively, for two years, your brain will see things you won't see if you try several films and developers.
Have fun!

pentaxuser · Oct 7, 2022

mshchem said:
I do miss a great ale. I gave up beer to stay alive, now I'm trying to give up chocolate for the same reason. I'm running out of stuff to give up.

When you've given everything up that is enjoyable and are existing on water and lettuce leaves do not be tempted to go to the doctor and expect him to give you a guarantee that you will live longer. If he is anything like mine he will say "On lettuce leaves and water I can only guarantee that it will seem longer

pentaxuser

Terryro · Oct 7, 2022

I have used the Ilford Time/Temp chart for many years and it's been very accurate for my methods. I believe the biggest thing to consider is that all the chemicals and wash water are very nearly the same temp. I was off a few degrees from developer to stop and boy did I have reticulated film with Tri-X. Interesting effect though.

BigMackCam · Oct 8, 2022

Juan Valdenebro said:
18 degrees Celsius is a very good temperature for sure, talking about films and developers in a general way. And Rodinal works extremely well at 17 and 16 too. Any temperature chart will guide you perfectly: you'll add a bit more development time over your own functional times at 20 degrees, and everything will be more than fine.

Great to know. Thank you!

Juan Valdenebro said:
About the MDC, well, it gathers lots of different types of information, both from manufacturers and individuals: apart from wrong data, recommended times are in general a) close to 15% longer than those needed for condensor enlargers, b) just starting guides for your own testing, and c) commonly right for bright overcast and not for darker and dull overcast with low contrast, and they're never for sun. So there's not a single development time: you'll learn how to treat film differently depending on the scene and its light.

Yes, that makes perfect sense. So long as the MDC / Ilford chart get me "in the ballpark", I'll be very happy... I can take it from there, tweaking as necessary

Again, thank you sincerely to all who've replied with helpful information and advice, and my apologies for not responding to every post. I'm very grateful for the assistance!

Developing B&W negatives at 18 deg C instead of 20... newbie questions

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency