developing 4x5

Dean Pascoe Williams · Apr 29, 2011

am waiting on a Crown Graflex....but am unsure of the best way to develop sheet film ie tray, inversion, rollers, are there others?
Any advice appreciated

bdial · Apr 29, 2011

There are stainless hangers that suspend the film in open tanks. Also the Combi-Plan daylight tank. Lots of people like the "taco" method using stainless roll film tanks. Then there are BTZ tubes, not to mention variations of tray development such as the "slosher" trays, or tray processing in the light with a paper safe.

All have their +'s and -'s, the best is what works well for you, both in your head, and result-wise.

My preferences are hangers then trays, then Jobo sheet tank/reel.

jeffreyg · Apr 29, 2011

I second ss hangers and open tanks. No moving parts and they pretty much last forever. They do use perhaps more chemistry than some other systems. After processing just hang to dry.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

degruyl · Apr 29, 2011

The big question is: do you have a darkroom? If you do, and you don't mind spending 20 minutes in there, hanger / tank developing works very well. As does tray, although you have to be more careful to avoid scratching.

If you prefer to do your developing with the lights on, daylight tanks (My preference is the Combi-Plan) work well. You still need a larger enough changing bag to load the film.

BTZS tubes also work great. I have never used a Jobo of any sort, so I won't speak to that.

RalphLambrecht · Apr 29, 2011

I favor the Jobo tanks with rotation development for the following benefits:

1. daylight processing
2. minimum chemical usage
3. very even and consistent development

Rick A · Apr 29, 2011

I'm with Ralph on that. Of course, there is always the "taco" method that only requires a plastic two reel tank and some rubber bands. That requires more chemistry volumn, but very inexpensive to start up.

mrred · Apr 29, 2011

Rick, could a 2 reel stainless tank work?

Mainecoonmaniac · Apr 29, 2011

A simple way is to use a 5x7 trays and start with one sheet. Then you can process multiple sheets at a time. However, you've got to get your fingers to shuffle the sheets if you process many sheets in a 5x7 tray. The drawback is you can scratch you film if you're not careful. I've used film hangers and they work well, but you have to practice using them. I've been using a Yankee Agitank and it works well. You don't have to put your hands in the chemicals an you can process 12 sheets at a time. The drawback with the Agitank is you have to use a lot of chemistry. Start out simple first. My friend uses a Combitank and he likes it. More than one way to skin a cat.

Rick A · Apr 29, 2011

No, unfortunatly they are too short inside. You need four inches interior height with lid on for film to fit. The really cheap Arista or A-P brand tanks work best, Paterson tanks push on the film somewhat.

Dean Pascoe Williams · Apr 29, 2011

timers

What about timing during tray development...and the use of glow in dark timers ( Graflex)?

Won't they fog film?

jp498 · Apr 29, 2011

Combiplan is my choice 4x5 developing. I use trays for 8x10 developing though.

When developing in tray, I have my darkroom glowing gralab timer on the other side of the room; 5 feet away from the trays instead of 2. I also keep the lights off for an hour or so before I go in. When I go in to prepare for tray developing, I just use the safelight till I'm ready to go. Safelight does not charge the gralab glow. Then of course, it's lights out from pre-wash till it's been in the fixer for a minute or so.

I also keep the darkroom only safelight lit when preparing to load film holders. This keeps the clock dark too while film holders are being loaded.

frobozz · Apr 29, 2011

My usual plug for the Nikor 4x5 tank and reel, when this subject comes up...

Duncan

http://backglass.org/duncan/apug/nikor_cut_sheet_tank_instructions.pdf

chimneyfinder · Apr 29, 2011

Hello, Dean. I don't know where you are based, but in the UK I have just started using a 5x4 film holder that fits inside a Paterson 3 reel tank that is designed and being sold by one man by the name of Morgan O'Donovan. He trades on ebay as 'mod_photographic' and has a video demonstrating it on You Tube. It is an excellent device for up to 6 sheets at a time using 1 litre of solution and I am finding it very easy to use: a big thumbs up. You do need the 3 reel tank only and as a consequence these seem to be at a premium secondhand and so are worth looking at new. Often, (i.e. when you need one) 5x4 processing tanks are a bit thin on the ground in the UK and I have found other tank options, apart from Jobo, to require 2-4 litres of solution.
So, that's just my recommendation for a good new product.
Cheers, Mark Walker.

Rick A · Apr 29, 2011

frobozz said:
My usual plug for the Nikor 4x5 tank and reel, when this subject comes up...

Duncan

http://backglass.org/duncan/apug/nikor_cut_sheet_tank_instructions.pdf

Nice, but try finding one for less than $100(more likely $150 these days)

RalphLambrecht · Apr 29, 2011

Dean Pascoe Williams said:
What about timing during tray development...and the use of glow in dark timers ( Graflex)?

Won't they fog film?

They won't (unless you put them on top of the film). If none is available, you can make yourself an audio tape or use a voice recorder and record spoken timing intervals.

johnnywalker · Apr 29, 2011

chimneyfinder said:
Hello, Dean. I don't know where you are based, but in the UK I have just started using a 5x4 film holder that fits inside a Paterson 3 reel tank that is designed and being sold by one man by the name of Morgan O'Donovan. He trades on ebay as 'mod_photographic' and has a video demonstrating it on You Tube. It is an excellent device for up to 6 sheets at a time using 1 litre of solution and I am finding it very easy to use: a big thumbs up. You do need the 3 reel tank only and as a consequence these seem to be at a premium secondhand and so are worth looking at new. Often, (i.e. when you need one) 5x4 processing tanks are a bit thin on the ground in the UK and I have found other tank options, apart from Jobo, to require 2-4 litres of solution.
So, that's just my recommendation for a good new product.
Cheers, Mark Walker.

Looks like an excellent replacement for the jobo 2500 system. Thanks for posting.

TareqPhoto · Apr 29, 2011

I've just asked the same question on another thread of myself, and waiting the answer if same or different.

Ronald Moravec · Apr 30, 2011

Tray is best for economy.

With single sheet, lift top and left side for one agitation cycle.
Lift bottom and right for next.

If you use an 8x10 tray, let the film slop around all over.

Immerse emulsion up and leave it that way.

With multiple sheets, presoak in water 2 min or film sticks.
This is the only legitimate time to presoak film.

Prop up the far edge of an 8x10 tray and work the stack against the close edge. Interleave thru the stack once per minute. Emulsion up. Go left right one time stacking, next cycle top bottom so you do not lose count.

Use an audible timer or fog a piece of film to make a filter over the light. Baffle so no direct light hits the tray. My filter is so dark I have to stare at the numbers 10 sec before I can read it and I have very good night vision.

Nikkor tank is good.

Hangars are good. Agitate hard first 60 sec. A hangar rack
is really really nice. Arkay will make you one. Pricy but worth it. Hangars stay in place and do not fan out. Impossible to damage film that way.

Google slosher tray.

Bill Burk · Apr 30, 2011

RalphLambrecht said:
They won't....

I agree with Ralph. Careful testing could quantify "how charged, how long and how close" glowing timers and thermometers are. (A GraLab timer and Bogen thermometer are "in" my tested safe darkroom - but when I tested, I didn't check how "charged" they were).

My GraLab is about 5 feet away behind the drying rack.

I've been wanting to share this thought for a while...

I judge adequate darkroom "darkness" by thinking about a dark photographic scene. When I WANT to take a picture, it's hard enough to get any shadow density. So when I see light leaks in my darkroom, I try to imagine how long an exposure would have to be to take a picture of it. If a 15 minute exposure time wouldn't capture the image at f/1.4 - I figure the light leak isn't going to fog the film during development.

nworth · Apr 30, 2011

The Nikor tank is probably the nicest way, but it is long out of production and hard to find. Deep tanks also work well if you have the volume to justify them. There are several other tanks available, however, and they work decently. I have had problems with uneven development in the Yankee tank, but others use it with good results. I have no experience with the Combi tank. The Jobo rotary processor does an excellent and very even job with 4X5 film. I usually use a Unidrum on a Uniroller to process 4X5. If you get a Unidrum, be sure it has the slide that permits you to process 4X5 and 5X7 sheets. I have no experience with the BTZS small drums, but they are also an option. It looks like slot processors like the Nova would work with the proper carriers, but I have no information about them. (Can anyone fill us in on these last two items?) By far the cheapest option is tray processing, as described above. Its only real disadvantage is a long time in the dark. A variation on tray processing is a film slosher, available Photograpers' Formulary, among others. It is a plastic basket that holds 6 sheets of 4X5 and allows you to process them easily in 11X14 trays.

Ken Nadvornick · Apr 30, 2011

Rick A said:
Nice, but try finding one for less than $100(more likely $150 these days)

More like $200+ for a really nice one. I paid ~$180 for my really nice one several years ago.

On the other hand, it's also essentially a one-off, lifetime purchase. I can now use it for the next 30+ years for 1+ cents per day. Then after my Game Over light finally flashes my heirs can resell it for probably three times what I originally paid for it.

:

Ken

Sirius Glass · Apr 30, 2011

RalphLambrecht said:
I favor the Jobo tanks with rotation development for the following benefits:

1. daylight processing
2. minimum chemical usage
3. very even and consistent development

This is what I ended up using plus I have temperature control for color work.

See attached for the trades as I see them.

Steve

frobozz · Apr 30, 2011

Ken Nadvornick said:
More like $200+ for a really nice one. I paid ~$180 for my really nice one several years ago.

On the other hand, it's also essentially a one-off, lifetime purchase. I can now use it for the next 30+ years for 1+ cents per day. Then after my Game Over light finally flashes my heirs can resell it for probably three times what I originally paid for it.

:

Ken

That's my take on it. $200-ish is not really that much to pay for the right tool for the job, that lasts forever. You never need another one, nothing wears out on it, there is no motor to burn up or brain to suddenly stop working.

To the poster who said they're hard to find - they're not hard to find at all. It's hard to find one for less than $150-$200, sure, but if you're willing to pay that much, there's pretty much always one or two available on That Auction Site.

Duncan

Light Guru · Aug 9, 2011

You could also look into the 4x5 film holder by ModPhotographic sold on ebay. It lets you usea a standard 3 reel paterson tank to develop 4x5 film. It hild 6 sheets.

RPippin · Aug 9, 2011

I've used tray development, but I'm not real good at keeping scratches off my negs. I've also used hanger developing, but that has it's own issues with even development and scratches on your negs if your not careful. When I switched to the BTZS system and followed the instructions, with a pre soak, I found that I could roll the tubes around in a stop bath or water bath for pyro, and switch them to the hangers for the fixer with the lights on. After dumping the fixer, I could keep them in the hangers and use the tank and hangers to wash the film with. Be careful with the hangers, if you load up your tank and pull them out to drain and reinsert them you could get some scratches on the film. I fix with the light on so I can better see what I'm doing with the hangers. Yes, I did say I fix with the light on, even with pyro and a water bath for stop. The BTZS system is cheaper than a JOBO rotorey system and easy to use. I also have a couple of 8X10 tubes and wish I could pick up some 5X7's as well.

developing 4x5

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