Developer Using Tylenol Tablets

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srs5694

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Photo Engineer said:
I think it is important to note that both p-amino phenol and ascorbic acid are powerful developing (reducing) agents. They may even be superadditive.
...
My opinion is that you are getting a superadditive mixture of p-amino phenol and ascorbic acid, making an Xtol type developer. Of course rodinol relies on p-amino phenol at relatively high pH as well. Who knows?

Patrick Gainer's "Begone Fog" sidebar in the Unblinking Eye "Appreciating Rodinal" page claims that p-aminophenol and ascorbic acid do form a superadditive pair. I don't know what the optimum proportions are for that effect, though. Determining that might help optimize the Tylenol Developer formula.

In any event, the end result of this formula should be very similar to Rodinal with ascorbic acid added, although I've not checked on the precise proportions of the various components.
 
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htmlguru4242

htmlguru4242

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I'm not sure of carbonate can be used, as tbe purpose of the hydroxide is to hydrolize the acetyl group from the Acetaminophen molecule. I can try it, though.

The main problem with experimentation is that I need to wait a few hours after each test to allow the NaOH to react ...
 
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htmlguru4242

htmlguru4242

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Ok, I've developed some Fuji Neopan 400, exposed @ about ISO 350. I developed in the second mix for 13 minutes at about 65º - 68ºF. I do not know the exact temperature. The negatives are very thin, but there are certainly images present. The detail is excellent all over, and acutance and shapness are excellent. I'm not sure if the images are printable, though they're certiantly recoverable digitally.

I'm letting a new formula react:

+300ml water
+5 acetaminpophen tablets (650mg each, total of 3.25g acetaminophen)
+1 teaspoon NaOH
+50ml of solution of 1L water with 1 tbsp of boric acid
+250mg ascorbic acid
 

srs5694

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Another film update: I shot a roll of Fomapan 400, all of a single subject, with the intention of developing short strips of the roll in Tylenol Developer and two or three others for comparison purposes. My first strip, in PC-Glycol, came out as I'd expected. Next up was Tylenol Developer, which was a fresh batch I'd whipped up about eight hours earlier. I guesstimated a 1:1 dilution for 14:00 at 20C. When I looked at the film, I was very disappointed; it was foggy, with what I initially took to be no image, but when I examined the film more closely, I could barely make out an image.

In case I'd goofed when mixing up the developer, I did a simple test of developer activity: I did a side-by-side snip test, with a snip of Fomapan 400 and a snip of Ilford Pan F+, both in a 1:1 dilution of the same batch of Tylenol Developer. The Ilford Pan F+ began to darken at about 1:30 and was almost completely black by 3:00, but the Fomapan 400 took about twice as long to darken. Thus, I don't think the developer was "bad" (in the sense of different from the batch I tested yesterday). Instead, my conclusion is that this developer is completely unsuitable for Fomapan 400, at least at 1:1 dilution. Increasing the development time might bring out a printable image, but it would also no doubt make that base fog, which is already hideous, much worse. I don't know why the Ilford Pan F+ produced decent images but the Fomapan 400 didn't. Perhaps some changes to the formula would make it workable with the Fomapan, but I don't know enough about the chemistry to know what to suggest.
 
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htmlguru4242

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Not sure what it is, but as long as it contains acetaminophen, I'm assuming it could work. I'd try it out, as we're looking for experimentation here.
 

titrisol

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Posted by DonaldQualls on 06.12.2005 somwhere else

DonaldQualls said:
30 tablets @ 500 mg generic acetaminophen (crushed -- I used an 8 ounce hammer with the tablets in a postal envelope)
50 g sodium sulfite
20 g sodium hydroxide
water to make 250 ml

Start with about 150 ml room temp water. Stir in the acetaminophen and sulfite (I used sodium sulfite stock solution I already had); solution will be nearly opaque and white. Don't worry about the little rags and tags of tableting material; they don't seem to affect anything. Add the sodium hydroxide, stir, seal, and let stand for at least 24 hours; activity may continue increasing (as the reaction converting acetaminophen to p-aminophenol proceeds) for up to 48 hours from mixing. If the solution isn't as dark as weak tea with milk, at a minimum, it needs to stand longer.

As solution ages, you may note a layer of less opaque, darker colored solution floating on the denser, chalky looking portion; stir this together before using. After about a week, clear needle-like crystals will precipitate; leave these in the solution and stir before drawing off concentrate for use. Color will continue to darken from tan, to pink, to brown; as with Rodinal, this does no harm.

Dilute like Rodinal, use Rodinal times, though use of the sodium salts instead of corresponding potassium compounds in formulation is said to result in "softer working" developer, so if you're already a Rodinal user you might find you need to adjust times slightly to keep the same contrast. Don't attempt to use 1:100 until the solution is at least pink.

This formula originally comes from a discussion thread on rec.photo.darkroom newsgroup about two years ago, BTW, though the poster then cited another worker whose work I haven't seen. I'm sold; if you buy the acetaminophen at Costco, use Red Devil brand lye, pay $5/lb for your sulfite, and buy distilled water at 97 cents a gallon, this developer costs about 55 cents for the above quantity, which will develop about 50 rolls at 1:50 (35 mm or 2x120 on a 220 reel). Use of distilled water for dilution will, of course, increase cost per roll for the working solution, but it's still around 25 cents a roll; I usually factor out the distilled water, since it's essentially a constant for a given amount of film. Fomapan 100 gives *excellent* results in this soup; TX and Classic 400 in 120 are pretty nice, too, though the grain might be objectionable in 35 mm. I've been using it at 1:50 with reduced agitation, adding 50% to published Rodinal 1:50 times to account for agitating every 3rd minute.

And a followup posting on 14.02.2006
Mix it 1+25 and use the 1:25 timing, or mix it 1+49 and use the 1:50 times. Treat it like Rodinal, not R-09.

And just watch while it gets darker -- mine's coming on three months old, it's the color of flat Coca-Cola, and works at least as well as it did 72 hours after mixing. Just like Rodinal...
 

Gerald Koch

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htmlguru4242 said:
The ascoric acid in this formula was only added to keep the pH down. I didn't want to run film through the soluton of pH 12 ...
This is what people do routinely when they develop film in Rodinal. Agfa gives the pH of the working solution 1+25 as 11.55 the concentrate has a pH of 14! Adding ascorbic acid or any other acid to any conc pap developer will seriously compromise it's developing capability.
 

Gerald Koch

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htmlguru4242 said:
tbe purpose of the hydroxide is to hydrolize the acetyl group from the Acetaminophen molecule
Exactly! Carbonates will not work.
 
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