Developer Temps

[mikeryan]

I have recently retired to Florida and want to start back using film again. I have extremely warm water from the tap. It can be 80 degrees allot of the time. I can temper my chemistry but can't temper the tap. I would be worried about reticulation in that scenario. My developer had been rodinal. I like the effects AND the keeping qualities. Is there a problem with chemistry at 80 degrees? I can extrapolate times if need be. 80 is pretty warm. Thanks for any info.

 

[480sparky]

Chill some water in the fridge.

 

[mikeryan]

Chill some water in the fridge.

And how much should I chill to thoughoughly wash 3 rolls of film?

 

[Neal]

Dear mikepry,

80°F will be no problem. For example, the Xtol data sheets come with times for 68°F to 80°F. (I have found the suggested times to be right where they need to be.) The key, of course, is to make sure all your liquids are at the same temperature, including wash water. If your house is climate controlled, simply leaving all the liquid you will use in the room overnight will put them where they need to be.

Once you are back in the saddle for a bit you will have few issues.

Good luck,

Neal Wydra

 

[Ian Grant]

Mike, when I'm in Turkey I regularly process at 26º or 27º C (just over 80º F) for exactly the same reasons you outline, I can keep the temperature of the whole process cycle +/- 0.2º C with no real effort and the results are no different to working at 20º C when I'm back in the UK, only the dev times differ.

I'm often using 2 litres of chemistry so cooling sufficient wash water etc just isn't viable.

Ian

 

[Neal]

Dear mikespry,

You will need very little water for washing. Check out the Ilford suggestions for film washing. I follow that method in general but with a bit more time and the second wash using hypo clearing agent.

Neal Wydra

 

[mikeryan]

Thank you Neal and Ian. Living in Wisconsin I never had to be worried about too warm of water!! I had allot of health issues so my photography fell off. I'm so glad to be back. I remember you Ian from years ago. Hello old friend. I will dilute my rodinal more so as to avoid too short of times. I was reading DF's posts on agitation schemes and found it fascinating. Thomas B had some great thoughts on that as well. Thanks again.

 

[480sparky]

And how much should I chill to thoughoughly wash 3 rolls of film?

No set amount. I'd personally toss a couple gallons in so I could pour some into my kitchen sink and add tap water to get to my chemical temps. I'd have enough in the basin to dunk my tank 8 or 10 times, then pour it into the other side of the sink. After that, you could start running tap water into the mix and slowly raise the temperature of your rinse water up since the film is now fully developed and a slow change won't affect it now.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Welcome to Florida where the state bird is the mosquito and the state flower is mildew. Just kidding.

Originally film emulsions were very soft therefore low temperatures around 65F were used for developers. Todays modern emulsion are mush harder and you can develop up to 80F.

 

[MattKing]

If your house is climate controlled, simply leaving all the liquid you will use in the room overnight will put them where they need to be.

+ 1
If your room temperature is more convenient to use than your tap temperature, use chemicals and water at room temperature.
Even a couple of hours is usually enough for a bucket of water to come to room temperature.

 

[Sirius Glass]

If the development time will be too short, less than 4 minutes, I chill all the chemical first. When I use daylight tanks, once the film is developed, the washes can be warmer.

I use the Jobo processor for black & white when the temperature is high. I get the bath water in the processor cool with ice packs before I start processing and I use the chilled chemical. The chilled water bath keeps the wash water at the same temperature.

 

[mikeryan]

Thanks all for the input. So, is 80 like the maximum temp then. That's what we keep the house at in the summer.

 

[M Carter]

Well, I wouldn't suggest using tap water for your developer (or really for mixing fixer, stop, and for final rinse). I'd suggest distilled. We have a cartridge undersink water filter in our house, so I often use that fro prewash and stop, but always distilled for developer and final rinse.

I live in Dallas, same deal, bathwater all summer, ice water all winter. I just use a sort of rubbermaid tub with ice water or hot water to get my pre-wash, dev, and stop to 20°c. Sometimes I pour a little distilled into a baggie and freeze it, and I can crumble it and toss some ice chips in the dev if I don't want to wait. My washing temps don't get hot enough for reticulation (and warmer water washes film and paper faster), but it would be simple to cool down a pitcher or two of water, even just toss some ice in a pitcher, fill it with water, and there's a few tanks worth of wash. I've stuck a pitcher of distilled in the fridge or microwaved it and then "mixed to temp" when I want to get to temp faster.

I sometimes do large liquid emulsion prints on canvas, and I coil some tubing up in a cooler with a bag of ice poured around it, and run my wash water through that, as room temp water softens the emulsion too much.

 

[Sirius Glass]

The quality of tap water varies with location. Most places do not need distilled water. For example in Los Angeles, I have never needed a water filter nor distilled water.

 

[Chris Livsey]

It is generally quoted that a sudden change of temperature to cause reticulation requires a difference of 15°F as a minimum, if you maintain all temperatures at 80°F you will not see reticulation, it is the sudden shift or shock that causes it not the absolute temperature. (That excludes silly high where the gelatine will separate)

 

[Luis-F-S]

Thanks all for the input. So, is 80 like the maximum temp then. That's what we keep the house at in the summer.

You could get a chiller which is what I did, though it's not cheap. You can be sure if mine ever dies I'd get another one.

 

[Chris Livsey]

Thanks all for the input. So, is 80 like the maximum temp then. That's what we keep the house at in the summer.

Not at all, Steve Anchell has data on temps and times up to 90°F, but the times do become so short it hardly seems worthwhile putting the film in, adding sodium suplhate, to retard swelling and anti-fog are possible, surely easier to cool a little?
link to data page:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...#v=onepage&q=tropical developers film&f=false

 

[jeffreyg]

Phjl,

I live in the Miami area. I keep a gallon bottle of distilled water in the refrigerator and one at room temperature. I mix the two as needed to have my film developer at 68F. The rest of the process is with tap water except for PhotoFlo which is with room temp distilled water and presents no problem with reticulation. For prints I use tap water only. We are on well water so besides our home water system I have a cartridge filter in the darkroom line especially for iron and calcium carbonate. I've used this setup for forty years in my air conditioned darkroom.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

 

[OptiKen]

Air conditioned darkroom?
What will they think of next!

 

[mikeryan]

I would like to thank everyone for their answers. Thanks for taking the time I really appreciate it!

 

[John Wiegerink]

I would like to thank everyone for their answers. Thanks for taking the time I really appreciate it!

Years ago I remember reading an article in Darkroom Techniques magazine where they were developing Tmax 100 at temps above 90F and as high as 100F. This was when Tmax first came out I believe. So Gerry must be right about modern emulsions being able to take the heat, so to speak.

 

[Luis-F-S]

Dear mikepry,

80°F will be no problem.

Yup just what I thought...and then I bought a chiller!

 

[Rudeofus]

If you use properly hardened film, you can process at 38°C/100°F or more. These films are not very sensitive to sudden temperature changes either, I have done all kinds of stuff to them and they never showed any damage.

My recommendation is you develop at whatever temperature gives you good process times, this step doesn't require much water, and that you do all the other steps at whatever temperature Florida gives you. If you see emulsion damage, switch film brand.