Developer recommendations for Pan-F

Ole · Sep 19, 2006

Gerald Koch said:
Interestingly the Neofin Blue MSDS of 7/4/2003 lists both Metol and Phenidone with potassium carbonate rather than sodium carbonate. This is in contrast with the typical Beutler formula which uses only Metol as the developing agent and also uses sodium carbonate.

Neofin Blue has changed a couuple of times. For some years it came in 25ml plastic ampoules, and the contents listed phenidone but not metol. The last pack I bought was in 30ml glass bottles, and the contents listed metol and not phenidone. I'm assuming that the use of potassium carbonate in place of sodium carbonate also is related to solubitity.

However this is really irrelevant, as no reliable source (i.e. Tetenal, or Willi Beutler) has claimed that Neofin Blue is Beutler's High Definition developer. Beutler said that Neofin was based on his HD, not that it was.

Gerald Koch · Sep 19, 2006

Ole said:
Neofin Blue has changed a couuple of times. For some years it came in 25ml plastic ampoules, and the contents listed phenidone but not metol. The last pack I bought was in 30ml glass bottles, and the contents listed metol and not phenidone. I'm assuming that the use of potassium carbonate in place of sodium carbonate also is related to solubitity.

However this is really irrelevant, as no reliable source (i.e. Tetenal, or Willi Beutler) has claimed that Neofin Blue is Beutler's High Definition developer. Beutler said that Neofin was based on his HD, not that it was.

Before the plastic ampoules it was supplied in 30 ml glass ampoules. I still have 4 of them unused and the developer looks fine.

I don't know just how irrelevant the comment is since Beutler and Neofin are often mentioned together. While Tetenal may say otherwise, I think the common belief is that they are mostly the same, even Anchell connects them. My point was that the MSDS states they are not.

Ole · Sep 19, 2006

Gerald Koch said:
I don't know just how irrelevant the comment is since Beutler and Neofin are often mentioned together. While Tetenal may say otherwise, I think the common belief is that they are mostly the same, even Anchell connects them. My point was that the MSDS states they are not.

I'll hold with the "informed consensus" - Beutler, Tetenal, and the MSDS:
They're similar, but not the same.

And there's reason to believe the Neofin Blue sold in plastic ampoules was not the same as what was sold in glass ampoules before that, or in glass bottles today. Whether or not the old and the new glass bottle versions are the same I have no idea - but it seems to work the same.

Jerevan · Sep 19, 2006

Gerald Koch said:
Rodinal is not a particularly good acutance developer.

Oh, that's a new one for me. But why does everybody rave about "sharp grain" when you talk about it? And why doesn't D-23 have outstanding acutance properties if Metol contributes to acutance in that case?

Ole · Sep 19, 2006

It's not Metol alone, but Metol and a low sulfite concentration that makes Beutler's an acutance developer. D23 contains enough sulfite that it acts as a silver solvent, with the result that it is a fine-grain low acutance developer.

Personally I find the Rodinal grain more "messy" than other developers - not so much coarse as "coarse". Rodinal was originally intended as a fine-grain developer, but at concentrations of around 1:10.
Since it also offers very little speed increase, I find no other big advantages than the longevity of the concentrate. BTW - I love it for glass plate negatives: 5ml Rodinal in 5cl water to develop one 5x7" glass plate or two 9x12cm ones. That works great, and fast!

Gerald Koch · Sep 19, 2006

Ole said:
It's not Metol alone, but Metol and a low sulfite concentration that makes Beutler's an acutance developer.

This was the method that Kodak used in their HD developer where the concentration of sulfite was half that of the metol.

Metol ............................... 2.0 g
Sodium sulfite (anhy) .......... 1.0 g
Sodium hydroxide ............... 0.5 g
Potassium iodide, 0.001% .... 5.0 ml
Distilled water to make ........ 1.0 l

However, in the Beutler formula the concentration of sulfite is 5 g/l in the working solution which is more than enough to protect the metol. This is roughly the same concentration as in Rodinal 1+50. The Beutler developer depends on local exhaustion of the developer and the release of bromide in areas of high density.

proslambanomenos · Sep 19, 2006

I'm noticing more pronounced grain with d76 lately. I always used it in the past but I think my eye is becoming more critical. I haven't gone back to examine older negs to see if it's a problem with recent practice or has always been that way.

Developer recommendations for Pan-F

Ole

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Gerald Koch

Ole

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Jerevan

Ole

Moderator

Gerald Koch

proslambanomenos

Developer recommendations for Pan-F

Ole

Moderator

Gerald Koch

Ole

Moderator

Jerevan

Ole

Moderator

Gerald Koch

proslambanomenos

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