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Developer Dilution to Developing Time

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Renato Tonelli

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Is there a formula for calculating the developing time of a film when the developer dilution is increased?

For example: If using the developer as stock and the developing time is 9 minutes, how does one figure out the increase the developing time when the developer is further diluted?

Stated another way:

Developer Stock - 9 minutes
Developer 1+1 - ? minutes (18min. ?)

Thank you.
 

Gerald C Koch

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I have never seen a generalized formula. There are several variables that must be taken into account. Things are more complicated if there is more than one developing agent present. Then there is pH, developer temperature. agitation, etc. However I have seen approximate ones for specific developer. For example when D-72 is used to develop film the relation for 20C is something like

1+4 5 min
1+7 8 min
1+9 10 min

or dilution 1+N for 1+N minutes
 

NedL

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With hc-110, development time is approximately proportional to dilution. I don't know about other developers.

So: Dilution D (1:11.5)is about 25% longer than dilution B (1:9).
Dilution E (1:14) is about 50% longer than dilution B.

It's enough to get to an approximate starting point for testing, but I doubt it's really exact.
 
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Renato Tonelli

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Good point about the developing agent.

I was specifically thinking of D-23. I have a time of 9min for the stock solution and was looking for a developing time when diluted 1+1
 

Harry Stevens

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In general and not aimed at the OP.:smile:
Well if I am buying a developer then I am also paying for the manafactures sheet who knows best (we hope) to give me those times, also there is a limit to the minimum developer you should use in a tank.
I suppose if film/paper developer cost as much as printer ink then I could see the reason for being tight but at 1+14 or 1+100 and anything between and manafacturing times available to us all it's hardly going to bust the bank.:smile:

Those types who try to stand develope film for two days in a fridge with ice and just 4ml of developer in 500ml of ice cold water just do my head in....:smile:
 
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pdeeh

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Good point about the developing agent.

I was specifically thinking of D-23. I have a time of 9min for the stock solution and was looking for a developing time when diluted 1+1
I use d23 1+1 for almost everything, and 12 min at 20C will almost certainly get you at least a printable negative. But you'll have to judge for yourself the results, and adjust as you need to.
These are so many variables - film, sbr being two rather important ones.
 

David Lyga

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I believe the Photo Lab Index (Focal) said that with dilution not much more than full strength, the timing does not change too much with dilution, but at extreme dilutions each subsequent dilution makes the development time increase substantially.

When the development time increases 2X with 2X dilution, you are at a moderate rate of dilution. From this point, more dilution will more than double the development time and less dilution will not quite cut that development time in half. - David Lyga
 

TareqPhoto

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That is why i try to stuck/stay with written or given dilutions anywhere and don't have headache thinking about time, i know sometimes more dilution is to save the chemicals, but there are chemicals that are cheap and can be diluted large or use little of the chemical so it can last longer, i don't like increasing assumptions by going with some unknown or popular dilutions only to save chemicals, you can make a developer by yourself if you have specific raw chemicals then it may serve you for long time.

If the developer is given in different dilutions then i try to go with the higher dilution if it is working fine or tested and confirmed for results, but i am very lucky that i bought many developers so i can waste as much as i want and still i have them available, with chemicals or say developer and fixer i have i can go up to 100 films before they are almost running out, and that number is really big for me as i barely can shoot more than 10-20 films per year, but if i will start to shoot more by this year then i will hardly or maximum reaching 50 films, so i am good to go for about 2-3 years coming, and if one day i can buy a processor automation then it will save even more as i read it doesn't use much chemicals.
 

M Carter

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I've done a fair amount of testing with Rodinal; I sometimes like Rodinal at 1+25 for the way it renders faces. Yes, your mids get pushed down, I assume because Rodinal is a "compensating" developer (I am no sort of chemist though, but this is what I've observed). Yes, grain becomes more apparent (tested this by enlarging the same crop of my test still-life very big with test prints from different dilutions). I've also found that developing a few degrees cooler has no effect on grain.

I can pretty much dial in Rodinal to get the same highlight rendering at various reasonable dilutions, in the 1+30 to 1+50 range, just by using a calculator. The percentage of developer increase has equaled the percentage of time decrease for me, but again, that's in a fairly small range where the developer properties are known. I have little interest in "stand" developing.

It's really not that hard to do some extensive testing - I set up a still life with hot lights or studio strobes; I use a small white board and mark the film, the bracket number, and the ISO's I am testing - I use a piece of tape to "tag" the frame for each ISO (I may have 50, 75, and 100 listed, and I move the piece of tape for each frame). This was, all the data is on the piece of film, which for me is a huge deal since it's easy to get disorganized. I aslo stick myself in these shots and use a wired release.

I shoot a bracket, shoot a frame with the lens cap on, remove the lens, set the shutter to "B", and stick a small square of scotch tape right on the film. Shoot another lens-cap frame, wipe the bracket number from the white board, and then shoot the next bracket. I can get about 6 brackets of 3 iso's to a roll of film. In the darkroom, I feel for the tape, and cut the film at those points and store it.

With one-shot developers, I'll soup a strip, and pour the dev into an airtight bottle - it was 'expecting' a full roll but only worked a few frames, I'll re-use it once. I blow dry the strip, determine max black (exposure time) in the enlarger from one of the blank frames, and go straight to a 4x5" print on MGWT with a 2.5 or 3 filter - I judge the neg by my final output, not on the light box, and all my test prints are exposed with the max-black time for that film & dev combo - I feel I've gotten most variables out of the process. Then I either blow-dry off the reel or grab a spare reel, and develop the next strip with adjustments based on the first strip - or if I've found a good time for 100 iso, I can see what I get for 50 or 75, and how differently the film/dev works at a different rated film speed. Of course, my temps, water, agitation and so on are all dialed in and consistent.

All those test prints and notes go into a binder I can refer to later. You can really learn a lot in an afternoon, with one roll of film.
 

LAG

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Is there a formula for calculating the developing time of a film when the developer dilution is increased?

Developer time * fresh film = Developer dilution / trial + error

1. Films, developers & dilutions vary in many respects

If using the developer as stock and the developing time is 9 minutes, how does one figure out the increase the developing time when the developer is further diluted?

1. Developing time (HD Curve fresh Film) + dilution = Dev. curve (concentration, temperature, and physical movement)

2. Developing time (? Film) + dilution = (Drop/clip) test

Notes: You could assume an estimated (percentage) time-value based on a manufacturer's studied time reference as a starting point, but with the consequent inconstant result and film Consequences: they are different when the activity of the reducer (structure & treatment) is also different.

Reluctant to test = random result

Best
 
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