Time well spent, I say!
Time well spent, I say!I went through several phases:
- Try everything at once... wheeeeeeeee
- Pick a film and developer
- Shoot endless gray scale and use a densitometer to check everything (did you know that scrambled eggs is 0.9DU over FB+F?)
- Discover that the the Cool Kids (Adams, Weston, Picker, the local camera guy) all had favorites - try those
- Settle into what works into a manageable "blast radius"
- Explore around the edges of that radius
That only took 50 years. Working on a plan for the next 50.
Unless your objective is to digitally print the image, the point is NOT how your scanner or screen represents things, but how actual printing paper sees them. Delta 100 doesn't take on a deep pyro stain; but it is still a significant factor in highlight reproduction and enhanced edge acutance. You might be able to simulate that somewhat by scanning in conjunction with a blue filter.
I use Perceptol 1:3 to give a little more grain growth with TMax 100 for sake of improved edge acutance. If I did that with D100, the grain would come out larger than TMY400 in pyro; so what would be the point unless a little film cost saving?
This is just basic ABC's style information. Even putting a negative atop a light box and viewing it through a medium blue filter would help. Otherwise, the comparison isn't objective. I'm not stating that to offend anyone. It's just how it's done.
Well, if proving nothing is the point you're trying to prove.....
Does the pyro stain factor in acutance or doesn't it? It's that simple. Yes it does; so why not include the effect in your alleged test?
I was hinting at an ongoing thread where a beginner is losing sleep on whether they should prefer D23 to D76. A test like yours above should put to rest the idea that playing with developers will make a huge difference in one's photography.
Yes This!
This is one reason I find the "ignore user" function very useful.You wade into every discussion with the certainty of a master, yet offer little more than sneers and stale opinion. You criticize with confidence, but alas, all you truly master is the art of being disagreeable.
Don't lose sleep, use whatever gives you the results you like and works for your workflow.I'm suddenly the noob that is losing sleep over what developer to use.
As I said to @albireo , I never once asked what B&W developer to use.
I was happy with the B&W developers I had. My questions were about trying to learn about the development process. It was the members of this forum that bombarded me with recommendations to try other developers, and if you go to a forum and people tell you that you should be using something else, what am I supposed to do? Ignore them? Then I am the noob who won't listen to advice. So I tried to listen to advice. You guys setup an impossible conundrum. Different members recommended that I try D23, D76 1+1, D76 stock, and MyTol, often disagreeing with each other, and when I made an effort to take the recommendations seriously, I'm suddenly the noob that is losing sleep over what developer to use.
This is the nature of the beast, everyone has an answer that is mostly right depending on so many factors. With modern films the difference between developers can be large or in most cases small. I do see some differences between the scans OP did of D23 and PMK. but not enough to go and buy either. The fact that Kodak Alris is marketing HC 110, D76 and Xtol which along with Tmax Developer are the newest, indicates that buyers still like HC 110 and D76 on the market, then there is Rodinal, very old develper still kicking in one from or another. Try a few differnt developers with a couple of film stocks and see what foats your boat. In terms of D23 vs. PMK, D23 is easy to mix, can be made in small quainties. PMK, if you like the tones of the scan over D23 then try some. Problem is that they are all good, it like asking what is a better car Ford or Chevy. Both are good, for many a matter of emotional attachment to a brand rather than a functional differance.As I said to @albireo , I never once asked what B&W developer to use.
I was happy with the B&W developers I had. My questions were about trying to learn about the development process. It was the members of this forum that bombarded me with recommendations to try other developers, and if you go to a forum and people tell you that you should be using something else, what am I supposed to do? Ignore them? Then I am the noob who won't listen to advice. So I tried to listen to advice. You guys setup an impossible conundrum. Different members recommended that I try D23, D76 1+1, D76 stock, and MyTol, often disagreeing with each other, and when I made an effort to take the recommendations seriously, I'm suddenly the noob that is losing sleep over what developer to use.
As I said to @albireo , I never once asked what B&W developer to use.
I was happy with the B&W developers I had. My questions were about trying to learn about the development process. It was the members of this forum that bombarded me with recommendations to try other developers, and if you go to a forum and people tell you that you should be using something else, what am I supposed to do? Ignore them? Then I am the noob who won't listen to advice. So I tried to listen to advice. You guys setup an impossible conundrum. Different members recommended that I try D23, D76 1+1, D76 stock, and MyTol, often disagreeing with each other, and when I made an effort to take the recommendations seriously, I'm suddenly the noob that is losing sleep over what developer to use.
if you go to a forum and people tell you that you should be using something else, what am I supposed to do? Ignore them?
The fact that Kodak Alris is marketing HC 110, D76 and Xtol which along with Tmax Developer are the newest, indicates that buyers still like HC 110 and D76 on the market,
Did somebody say my name?
Then you're supposed to keep in mind that one thing recommendations on a forum will never, ever do: converge. Another aspect of forum culture (if you will) is that there's no way for anyone to impose their will onto you. This adds up to a situation where you'll be offered a smorgasbord of options and you have total freedom in deciding what, if anything, you'll take from that.if you go to a forum and people tell you that you should be using something else, what am I supposed to do?
It is sound advice and those of us who've done this for decades dispense it with good intent. But how many of us actually did this first starting this, I wonder ...
Excellent, I like your style!As I said to @albireo , I never once asked what B&W developer to use.
I was happy with the B&W developers I had. My questions were about trying to learn about the development process. It was the members of this forum that bombarded me with recommendations to try other developers, and if you go to a forum and people tell you that you should be using something else, what am I supposed to do? Ignore them? Then I am the noob who won't listen to advice. So I tried to listen to advice. You guys setup an impossible conundrum. Different members recommended that I try D23, D76 1+1, D76 stock, and MyTol, often disagreeing with each other, and when I made an effort to take the recommendations seriously, I'm suddenly the noob that is losing sleep over what developer to use.
No?Did somebody say my name?
That thread was not me asking whether I should prefer D23 or D76. What I asked is if there's even a difference that matters. I said I'd rather just use D23. It was the members of this forum that keep tugging me to try one thing or another. I never once asked what B&W developer to use, but various members recommended that I try D23, MyTol, D76 1+1, and D76 stock and often disagreed with each other on what I should be using. I was happy with what I had. I just wanted to understand things better. It was the insistence of this forum that made me get more stuff.
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