Develop Brownie-era Verichrome with what I have?

jay moussy · Feb 20, 2021

An old thrift shop Rolleicord has an exposed roll of Verichrome, the brownie era type, with the ink backing paper.

I, of course, will want to develop this roll. It turns out the prior owner was connected to N,Y, high society!
I have only R09 and Caffenol on hand, and can do stand development,
The old Verichrome issue has been covered before (use K vintage chem,), here, but what is my best way to proceed, with my chemistries?

Beside my limited chemistry, generally, what are the leading principles in dealing with film this age?

bdial · Feb 20, 2021

@jnantz , AKA John Nanian works with a lot of old film, I believe his preferred method is to develop the film quickly, to minimize fog instead of doing something like stand development. Caffenol is also one of his favorites, so maybe he will chime in here with some specifics.

Tel · Feb 20, 2021

A few years ago, I developed a roll of found Verichrome from a Kodak 3A and got some images. From the clothing the subject was wearing I guessed late 1950s or early 60s exposure date. What worked for me was HC-110 dilution H with a long development time (10+ minutes as I recall). I've used R09 stand developing for some old b&w films with mixed results; I liked the HC-110 better.

img641 by terry, on Flickr

removed account4 · Feb 20, 2021

hey jay !
yea bdial is right I love stuff like that. ...
do you have any print developer hanging around ? like DEKTOL ?
I'd normally suggest you mix some caffenol C and add a squirt of dektol in it
and dilute some dektol 1:10. and go 5 minutes in the dektol agitate normally. ( 1 full min then 10 sec's every min )
pour it out then put the caffneol in there and agitate continuously for 5 minutes ... that will work .. but like bdial suggests it might be fogged
so I'd suggest mixing your dektol 1:5 and develop 1 full min then 5 seconds every 30 for 4 mins ( total 5 mins )...
I suggest that so you won't have as much fog, caffenol will stain your film a little ( as you might already know ) which might be good with the fog
both ways I've done and can attest work great for expired film.. just depends what you have handy and how much time you have...

have fun
John

Agulliver · Feb 22, 2021

I've had great luck with old Verichome Pan dating back to the 50s. But I would not recommend stand development. My "go to" is ID-11 or D76, 7 minutes with agitation every 60 seconds. IF you can't get an image out of some photographic material using that regimen, then probably nothing will work.

jay moussy · Feb 22, 2021

I found a post from years ago, here, where someone used Caffenol CM, but insisted on a healthy dose of KBr to deal with fog.

And, generally, it seems like lengthy pre-soaking is in order, with such old films.
Paper backing may even be sticking to film?

sterioma · Feb 22, 2021

I have received some very good advice in this thread: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...rome-in-vintage-camera-how-to-develop.180007/

TL;DR: used HC-110 dil B for 10 minutes on some old orthochromatic Verichrome (sadly only two frames were exposed).

Donald Qualls · Feb 22, 2021

sterioma said:
TL;DR: used HC-110 dil B for 10 minutes on some old orthochromatic Verichrome (sadly only two frames were exposed).

This is the advice I'd have given for any old found film prior to the change in HC-110. Who knows if the new version has the same anti-fog qualities as the old syrup? It clearly doesn't have some of the keeping qualities.

Andrew O'Neill · Feb 22, 2021

And be sure to post your resulting pics here please.

jay moussy · Feb 22, 2021

Andrew O'Neill said:
And be sure to post your resulting pics here please.

Will do!
The name (written on case) of the late prior owner of camera the roll came from indicates, from her obituary, that she was the social secretary to a New York socialite of years past, the type that owns a 14th century palace on a Spanish island, and is into the horse race circuit.
Who knows, I may have kompromat on there, alas expired!

Andrew O'Neill · Feb 22, 2021

jay moussy said:
Will do!
The name (written on case) of the late prior owner of camera the roll came from indicates, from her obituary, that she was the social secretary to a New York socialite of years past, the type that owns a 14th century palace on a Spanish island, and is into the horse race circuit.
Who knows, I may have kompromat on there, alas expired!

Fingers crossed there are salvageable images on it!

jay moussy · Feb 27, 2021

Well, tried to mount this very old film onto the Paterson reel, and it is giving me a very hard time, having been coiled tight for so long.
It would also have been nice if I had locked the reel in place correctly, as it collapsed in, on an almost successful first try... lesson learned!

Could I try to coil the film the opposite way, let it sit a bit, hoping it would at least allow me a fair chance?

Donald Qualls · Feb 27, 2021

jay moussy said:
Could I try to coil the film the opposite way, let it sit a bit, hoping it would at least allow me a fair chance?

it won't do any harm, but i doubt it'll help a lot -- that film has had decades to take the set it has, a few days or even weeks probably won't help much.

One way to deal with film that's too curly to go on the developing reel might be to use a Kodacraft apron in an appropriate tank. This is a plastic ribbon with an edge crinkle, like a lasagna noodle a meter or so long. The crinkle keeps the film from being flat against the main part of the apron and allows chemistry to get to both sides of the film, but it isn't dependent on getting the film to straighten at all, you just roll the apron and film up together, drop the coil into the tank, close it up, and turn on the lights.

I personally hate aprons, but they do tolerate old, tightly curled film a bit better than Paterson type reels.

Seems to me I used stainless last time I did a roll of fifty year old 120, but that was fifteen years ago or more.

jay moussy · Feb 28, 2021

Thanks Donald. I had the apron on hand but did not think of it - even though I would like to use the darn things, some day

After first failed attempt to get on spool, I soaked my film in room-temp. water, for an hour+ or so.
Out of the tank, film looked whitish, and Jello-like, under safe light.
Did emulsion just dissolve?

I decided to let dry overnight, and today, first thing in the morning, got it to go on spool, more or less.
So, who knows what will come out, if anything?

Note: this very old film's paper backing is pink, was red originally, I think
The untreated film cutoff, by the tape, is raspberry-red, with some small blotches.

jay moussy · Feb 28, 2021

Udpate: Rodinal 1:100, one hour stand developement, as per recommended by a forum member, it worked!
That Verichrome was good stuff.

Five or six frames exposed, I see long dresses, so before the mini-skirt era!

Andrew O'Neill · Feb 28, 2021

Could it have been taken sometime in the 40's/50's? Looks like she's knitting.

Donald Qualls · Feb 28, 2021

I agree, hair and dress style suggests post-War, but by less than ten years, probably 1948-1954. A couple years later than that, they'd have had different shoes, different hair, and likely shorter coats over skirts.

eddie · Feb 28, 2021

Would love to see the others which came out.

jay moussy · Feb 28, 2021

Old Verichrome was phased out in the mid fifties (I think) so that's a fixed cutoff date?

Yes on coat lengths!
Name of camera owner was written inside the case of (thrift shop) camera.
Obit of same person says she was born in 1926, so in mid-late forties she was 19-24. She may be the one on the right, going by her obit picture. Linking found objects to their former owners is a bit of a hobby of mine, so, that was a good candidate.

There are five usable shots. The sample above was just a quick take of the light box, so I can scan them and adjust in GIMP, and post here.

I can't believe I pulled something out of that film - and my safe lights work!

Develop Brownie-era Verichrome with what I have?

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