Demin water for final rinse?

[trexx]

Films and paper are or were tested unexposed; worst case
for a fixer. The only down sides are the longer film and
fixer process times. But, at least for myself, no stop
of any sort, and guaranteed 'archival' results plus
the few other advantages mentioned to date
more than make up for the little additional
time used processing. Dan

What is the guarantee that it is archival?
What independent laboratory has tested this?

You have said your fixing technique 'where the fixer is near exhaustion'. From my reading of CEK Mees the worst case for fixer is when it is near exhaustion, so I quote Mees 'When exhausted on nearly exhausted, fixing baths are used, thorough washing does not remove all the silver form the emulation, even if the time is increased several times over the time required for clearing. This apparent mordanting of complex of complex silver ions by the gelatin may be overcome by the use of a second fresh fixing bath following the exhausted bath."

I have run my own, hardly scientific, test on weak one-shot fixer on paper. I did three prints all the same exposure. I developed all at the same time. Two (1 & 2) I did my normal process and the third (3) I did develop and fixed in diluted fix. I washed all for 1 hour I then placed 2 and 3 in part B of sepia toner. No part A bleaching. I left them in for 30 min. I compared 1,2,&3. 3 showed shift from 1. 2 should the very slightest tone shift. I returned 2 and 3 to the part B bath, 1 was in water at the same time. I left them in about an hour and 15min. At this time there were clear signs discoloration in the 3 print, is was far from being even or consistent, print 2 did not have any further preceptable change.

I did this three or four weeks ago when I saw your post of guaranteed 'archival' . I did not post my finding as I thought to just leave it alone and tossed the prints but not my notes. But I see this post all too often and too many beginners will think this it a great way to save money and not keep stock fixer around. It is false economy, and false science.

Where is your proof of " guaranteed 'archival' " ?

 

[pierods]

What is the guarantee that it is archival?
What independent laboratory has tested this?

You have said your fixing technique 'where the fixer is near exhaustion'. From my reading of CEK Mees the worst case for fixer is when it is near exhaustion, so I quote Mees 'When exhausted on nearly exhausted, fixing baths are used, thorough washing does not remove all the silver form the emulation, even if the time is increased several times over the time required for clearing. This apparent mordanting of complex of complex silver ions by the gelatin may be overcome by the use of a second fresh fixing bath following the exhausted bath."

Where is your proof of " guaranteed 'archival' " ?

your experiment is incomprehensible, especially since I scan, but you might (might) have a point.

now, are you sure we're talking about the same thing as CEK Mees' (whoever he might be)?

1. dan's recipe gets from full strength to exhausted with the SAME film/sheet of paper

2. are we very far from the concentration of commercial products? ilford's rapid fixer is used at 1+4, and out of this 1+4, what's the actual percentage of ammonium thio?

3. you are implying that nearly exhausted fixer should never be used. Really sure about that? Because if that's true you're going back to dan's thesis (one shot, maybe more concentrated).

 

[dancqu]

What is the guarantee that it is archival?

Specifically the guarantee is in regard to the level of
silver in the fixer. Ilford specifies 0.5 grams/liter and
Grant Haist specifies 0.2 grams/liter. A mix of papers
will average about 0.08 grams/8x10.

I quote Mees 'When exhausted on nearly exhausted, fixing
baths are used, thorough washing does not remove all the
silver form the emulation, even if the time is increased
several times over the time required for clearing.

Near exhaustion from my point of view preceeds a fixer's
lack of ability to completely complex all non-image silver.
The above quote states that a fixer near exhaustion is
unable to completely complex the non-image silver.

I have run my own, hardly scientific, test on weak one-shot
fixer on paper. I did three prints all the same exposure.

At this time there were clear signs discoloration in the 3 print,
is was far from being even or consistent, ...

I continuously agitate because the fixer is very dilute.
Folding of the paper upon itself back to front and right
to left stirs the solution. Tests are done using the ST-1
and HT-2 drop wise solutions. Paper unexposed does
present the fixer with the greatest load of silver;
worst case. The ST-1 is a sulfide for silver test;
your B bath if I'm not mistaken. Dan