Degradation of film during processing.

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I think there is a certain amount of fetishism with analog in some quarters, be it film, tube amplifiers, or vinyl recordings. I wouldn't pay nosebleed prices for modern Leica (even though these cameras are indeed beautiful) simply because they are inherently limited by format.

I do own a IIIF and 50mm Summicron f/2 with a total investment of well under $1000. The pictures it takes are every bit the equivalent of what I could with a brand new M6 or M-A.


Real Leicas are Barnacks. Real Porsches are air cooled. :wink:

Shooting film is also cool…!
 

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I...The name ”latent image” says that it's not a proper or visible image yet, so fits with the visibility criterion, too. A digital file can contain the information to form an image, but, by just the visibility criterion, in itself isn't an image per se, ...
Nice to know how you think of the word 'image', but there is no 'visibility criterion' except for the one you personally hold.

Example: Poetry. As an art form, the poet creates images within the minds of the audience with words.
 
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We should imagine what the image will be on the SD card…!
 
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If a poem is copied to an SD card, does its beauty become divided, or does it multiply?

It depends if it’s done JPEG, DNG or DNG compressed…!
🤓
 

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If a poem is copied to an SD card, does its beauty become divided, or does it multiply?

Well, it becomes a lot easier for the dog to swallow it ...... 😇
 
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Let's see ... who first came up the term, "analog photography"? Was it Henry Fox Talbot, Niecpe, or Daguerre? Seems to me that something held claim to the title of photography for about 150 years before there was a bifurcation to its meaning. Yet here everyone is on an "analog equipment" and "film" thread of all places, going on and on about digital-this, digital-that versus analog-this, analog that. When somebody asks me if I still use film and have a real darkroom, I simply respond, "Is there anything else?'. Well, there are all kinds of other things; I just don't attach a label to them which has rightfully belonged to something else all along. No, they're not the same. If they were, people would be putting discs and thumb-drives into picture frames and albums instead.
 

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If a poem is copied to an SD card, does its beauty become divided, or does it multiply?

Depends if AI gets to it...
 

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I only get this from the operating manual from a nikon d3, the system has been designed to optimize the digital image(file), within the software there is a database of reference images which are referred to before storage(this is 2007 texhnology-so i bet things got better-relatively speaking), the thing about digital that leaves me cold is the spectacular colors, which are not realistic.
So it's not so much the degradation, but the artificial optimization or boosting that is produced in the digital realm before it is further enhanced
 

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Let's see ... who first came up the term, "analog photography"? Was it Henry Fox Talbot, Niecpe, or Daguerre? Seems to me that something held claim to the title of photography for about 150 years before there was a bifurcation to its meaning. Yet here everyone is on an "analog equipment" and "film" thread of all places, going on and on about digital-this, digital-that versus analog-this, analog that. When somebody asks me if I still use film and have a real darkroom, I simply respond, "Is there anything else?'. Well, there are all kinds of other things; I just don't attach a label to them which has rightfully belonged to something else all along. No, they're not the same. If they were, people would be putting discs and thumb-drives into picture frames and albums instead.

Is there such a thing as a fake darkroom, I wonder?
 
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Is there such a thing as a fake darkroom, I wonder?

The only way to find out is to turn the light on in the darkroom, then it won’t be a darkroom anymore. Go figure…!
 

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I just won't live long enough to read through a typical E-gadget owner's manual. Somewhere around p.403 you finally find out which combination of buttons to push which allows you to turn off five dozen on-board apps you neither want nor will ever use, just so you can take an actual picture. My younger wife ridiculed me and blamed my age for not being good with those things. Then when she was handed a digital camera for sake of Operating Room documentation, after a few days she gave up trying to figure it out and asked me to set it up for her. After two weeks of wading through the manual, I locked the whole thing in so it could only take one type of pictures, and told her not to touch any other commands. That worked. No possibility of a giraffe or comet getting digitally spliced into the middle of the image, or of all the details becoming psychedelic bubble colors.

I surprised that digital capture is valid at all if the before/during/after pictures become "evidence" in a medical lawsuit - which does happen. They're just too easy to digitally manipulate these days. I walked out on a Dentist that was trying to talk me into a very expensive procedure, showing me a "digital X-Ray" that was conspicuously tweaked. I already overhead him recommending the same thing to other patients in nearby rooms first.

As far as a "Virtual Darkroom" goes, Chuck, I'm sure someone could come up a 3d headset to provide a simulated version of actual darkroom experience: tripping over power cords, accidentally spilling acid on your feet, loading a film holder with the film backwards, getting paper fogged due to a defective safelight, dropping an expensive lens in the dark, even having the cat sneak in and getting its hair all through your enlarger. It would be more fun than virtual golf.
 
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I'll have to look at the manual again, if I could take pictures with a giraffe surfing a comet in a wave of psychedelic bubbles say in the twinkle of an eye (or in the gunk between teeth) with no post-processing that's the look I'm going for.
 

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Gosh - talk about psychedelic - I was perusing some more of Nikon's Small World microphotography contest images today. Then when you look up some of the microscope gear involved - a confocal polarized fluorescent device that costs five times what I paid for my house - well, that kinda counts me out. I'd merely like to own a decent Zeiss microscope like we used in my College Microbiology classes 55 yrs ago; and then if someone still needs all the crazy colors, there are optional pills which can provide that.
 

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I just won't live long enough to read through a typical E-gadget owner's manual. Somewhere around p.403 you finally find out which combination of buttons to push which allows you to turn off five dozen on-board apps you neither want nor will ever use, just so you can take an actual picture. My younger wife ridiculed me and blamed my age for not being good with those things. Then when she was handed a digital camera for sake of Operating Room documentation, after a few days she gave up trying to figure it out and asked me to set it up for her. After two weeks of wading through the manual, I locked the whole thing in so it could only take one type of pictures, and told her not to touch any other commands. That worked. No possibility of a giraffe or comet getting digitally spliced into the middle of the image, or of all the details becoming psychedelic bubble colors.

I surprised that digital capture is valid at all if the before/during/after pictures become "evidence" in a medical lawsuit - which does happen. They're just too easy to digitally manipulate these days. I walked out on a Dentist that was trying to talk me into a very expensive procedure, showing me a "digital X-Ray" that was conspicuously tweaked. I already overhead him recommending the same thing to other patients in nearby rooms first.

As far as a "Virtual Darkroom" goes, Chuck, I'm sure someone could come up a 3d headset to provide a simulated version of actual darkroom experience: tripping over power cords, accidentally spilling acid on your feet, loading a film holder with the film backwards, getting paper fogged due to a defective safelight, dropping an expensive lens in the dark, even having the cat sneak in and getting its hair all through your enlarger. It would be more fun than virtual golf.

Yeah, but there's nothing like the smell of fixer

I've been in a darkroom on- and off for the better part of 50 years and I want to continue to do so for many more.

By profession, I design technology systems. Trust me, I share your contempt for the over-featuring of everything. No one needs an internet connected toilet paper dispenser and I don't need a weather application on the toilet itself. Apart from some necessities for people with disabilities (for which specialty features can be a Godsend), mostly, all we're doing inflicting ADHD upon ourselves.

There are many virtues to film and darkroom work, but among them include a process that creates long periods of concentration and entering creative "flow". Speaking as a professional bit-twiddler, the vast majority of the technology consumers will never know that joy ...
 

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I only turned the darkroom heat on long enough today to get my enlarger carriers loaded and focused in advance of a printing session on Thursday, when it will probably be too rainy to get out. But it should be possible to faux mimic darkroom smells via brain implant connections, synchronized to the visual headsets. A skunk walks past my air intake vent once in awhile, so I'd want that feature included too.
 
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I'll have to look at the manual again, if I could take pictures with a giraffe surfing a comet in a wave of psychedelic bubbles say in the twinkle of an eye (or in the gunk between teeth) with no post-processing that's the look I'm going for.

Way out there.
Lost in space…!
 
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Really? Thats interesting.

If I take a digital photo but never display it, would it not be a photograph?

Or if I develop a film negative in complete darkness and then put it in a dark box. Is there no photograph?

I tried to think about it, but I don't know...

Slow day?
 
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Slow day?

A digital photo never displayed is a DIP, Digital Image Processed.
The developed film negative put in a dark box is a NIB, Negative In Box…!
 
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Nice to know how you think of the word 'image', but there is no 'visibility criterion' except for the one you personally hold.

Example: Poetry. As an art form, the poet creates images within the minds of the audience with words.
What is an image in your example here then? Would "the poet creates music within the minds" mean the very same thing? To me it sounds like you meant that one experiences imagery - visual, as opposed to, for instance, auditory - sensations. Maybe you didn't, then it's a metaphor I suppose? Do you actually think "image" is not of the visual realm or do you just find my wording too narrow?
 
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What is an image in your example here then? Would "the poet creates music within the minds" mean the very same thing? To me it sounds like you meant that one experiences imagery - visual, as opposed to, for instance, auditory - sensations. Maybe you didn't, then it's a metaphor I suppose? Do you actually think "image" is not of the visual realm or do you just find my wording too narrow?

An image how I understand it is something we can relate to as humans. A picture…!
 

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What is an image in your example here then? Would "the poet creates music within the minds" mean the very same thing? YES!!!! To me it sounds like you meant that one experiences imagery - visual, as opposed to, for instance, auditory - sensations. Maybe you didn't, then it's a metaphor I suppose? Do you actually think "image" is not of the visual realm or do you just find my wording too narrow?
Image = imagination So YES!!!, "image" does not only belong to the visual world!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Creating images (visual, audio, touch) is what our minds DO!

"Visualization", the creation of an image in one's mind that one carries through to the print, can be an essential part of one's photography. YMMD
 
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