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RAP

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Nov 28, 2002
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476
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4x5 Format
Michael,

To RAP: I have a hard time understanding how it could take 4 hours to make a print. Even back when I used enlarging paper it took at the most half that time (now takes an hour for 5 prints from one new negative, but that's Azo--it is so easy to work with).

Thanks for the reply. I just saw it today.

That is about what it takes me, some more, some less, depending on the variables. I tend to use longer development times, 4 to 5 minutes which eats up the time. Plus I like to comtemplate between pilot prints to make sure I am heading in the right direction. When I was learning, it would take me days! But as Caponigro said, "The best way to do it, is to do it." You have do develope a feel for what does what and adapt it to what you want to say.

I went to a Zone VI Workshop in the late 70's. It was great to say the least. I ate like a pig (the food was great), worked like a horse and still lost 5 lbs. Before that, I really had no idea what a good print really looked like. My portfolio that I presented the first day had prints that were way over printed, too dark. Fred set me straight.

For some reason Fred and I chaffed, though we had never met before. During one fieldtrip I looked into a barn, and saw the textures of the siding contrasted to some sunlit chicken wire. Fred barked at me, GET OUTA THERE! On another driving in the car, Fred saw a shot of some flowers, jumped out of the car and took it the picture. Then I blerted, AWWW you staged that! The last day was a very emotional one, Martin Tarter did a very moving slide show that got a standing ovation. I just did not want it to end.

I spent the next few months reprinting, and also printed some negs from the workshop using my new found info. Then I made a sojern back to Vermont. My first stop in was the Putney General Store. Just as I was about to open the screen door, who should come walking out at that precise moment, no not Fred. But my cousin, who was attending Windam at the time. She blerted out, "WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE!"

Anyway, I checked in and called the studio several times. Each time someone picked up the reciever and hung up. Some welcome! Maybe Fred knew I was in town. The next day I struck out, and somehow found Zone VI, walked in unannounced and saw Fred, Lil, and I think Bernie. I asked Fred to look at some prints to which he graciously agreed. The first comment from Lil was, "Oh! you have something to say!" Fred went through the box, asked a few questions, I mumbled some nerveous replies. Fred called one I took at the workshop "a beaut." I thanked him and left.
 

Donald Miller

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Sounds like the late Mr. Picker that I learned to know through his newsletters. Never at a loss for an opinion, never at a loss for words in expressing his opinion. Most times his opinions were summed up in several very distinct venues:
1. Buy a view camera
2. All of the good black and white papers were gone, with the exception of
"Brilliant"
3. Light meters were shoddily made and not to be trusted, with the
exception of Zone VI modified meters
4. Buy a view camera
5. Aluminum tripods aren't worth a damn...buy a Zone VI wooden tripod.
6. Hypo sinks, so buy a Zone VI print washer
7. Buy a view camera
8. No one knows what a good print looks like...buy Freds fine prints.
9. Buy a view camera
10. Anything other then a cold light isn't worth a damn.
11. Attend a workshop to learn to use the crap that I sold you, you aren't
smart enough to figure it out yourself.
12. Never forget....buy a view camera.

I miss Fred...We need more like him.
 

lee

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Nov 23, 2002
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Fort Worth T
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Actually, the late Fred Picker proved the saying that my dear late father was fond of using. "Just goes to show that there are more horses butts in the world than there are horses".

I have seen a number of Fred's "fine prints" and they are no great shakes. The fellow I stayed with in Tucson has a couple and they are muddy and poorly composed. Not something I would try and sell. Some of the equipment was pretty good. Some was just hype.

lee\c
 
OP
OP

David Hall

Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Messages
470
Location
South Pasade
Donald,

You're hilarious.

I actually bought a lot of that stuff (but not the Zone VI view camera) and now it's sitting in my garage waiting for me to start another chemical darkroom. I also bought a lot of Salt Hill stuff, which was extremely well made. Whatever happened to them?

dgh
 

Donald Miller

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David,
It seems that Fred Picker was, if not something else, the consumate pitchman. He did have some well thought out and built equipment, however his overbearing attitude seemed to grate on some of us. Fred was kind of like eating carp...the fish is not entirely bad once you get past the bones.

I don't recall Salthill. What did they build? Maybe that will jog my declining memory.
 

lee

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Fort Worth T
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Salthill made high end darkroom stuff. They have been out of business for nearly a decade. They made an enlarger with optical fiber (never saw one) and a good archival paper and film washer. I saw some stuff for sale not long ago on ebay.

lee/c
 

lee

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As to the darkroom, my darkroom partner and I finished putting the insulation and moisture barrier and sheetrock on the last wall this last Saturday. We have the little bathroom left to do and then the really heavy work will be done. I bought paint Saturday and that will go a long way to helping make it look like we are getting ready. After that, we can move in the sinks and connect to the plumbing we have already roughed in. The really good news is the roof repair that I did, worked and it does not leak. It rained all day Saturday and when I checked Sunday, it was dry as a bone. That is a big weight off my shoulders. The electrical is the real last thing before moving in. Oh we need to build some shelves and the like but that is minor stuff.

thanks for asking,

lee\c
 
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OP

David Hall

Member
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Jan 8, 2003
Messages
470
Location
South Pasade
I never had the Salthill enlarger, but I had the easel and a GREAT film dryer that I still use. I have a lot of the Zone VI acrylic stuff...archival washer, film washer, paper flattener (which has never even come close to working), etc.

Too bad Salt Hill went out of business. I wonder why.

dgh
 

Donald Miller

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Hey Lee,
Sounds like your darkroom is getting down to the point of "seeing the light at the end of the tunnel". I imagine that you felt good about the roof repair. How long has it been since you worked out of your own darkroom?

I have a proposition for you, if you want to do a documentary of the folks at Yoder, Kansas...I will drive the getaway car when they run after you with horse and buggy...I prefer the protection of sheet metal over a dark cloth...Just a personal characteristic of mine...what do you think, huh?

Good luck, Later...
 

lee

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I have not had a had my own darkroom in a number of years. Maybe as long as 16. I that is how long we have lived in this house. I took over the front bath about 8 years ago.

As long as the light at the end of the tunnel is not a fast freight train to Georgia I agree.

As to the proposition with the people of Yoder, KS. I am game if you are. We could take my truck and I could ride in back with the tripod and the camera set up. Then we could jump in back and well, you get the drill.


lee\c
 

Donald Miller

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Lee... About Yoder, Kansas...Well, I am not aware of their religion having anything incorporating hexes, voodoo, witchcraft and the like. I think that they are supposed to be non-violent...at least the last guy that made it back said that when they finally got him through therapy...So, what do you think...In other words, is your truck realllly faassst....?

Hey I bet that darkroom is looking awfully good after that bathroom, huh?

Later....
 
OP
OP

David Hall

Member
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Jan 8, 2003
Messages
470
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South Pasade
Lee,

You are becoming my inspiration, as I transition from the kitchen to a real darkroom. I have opted for a basement that is already plumbed and wired and the hot water heater is there, but it's below the drain line. Same as you, Lee, as I recall.

dgh
 

lee

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Nov 23, 2002
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Fort Worth T
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dgh,
I am glad that I am somebody's inspiration. There are pumps you can buy that will pump the effluent up to the drain level. My darkroom is on the main floor so I don't have that worry. I have used darkrooms like that in the past. I was not a problem.

lee\c
 

fhovie

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Joined
Mar 20, 2003
Messages
1,250
Location
Powell Wyoming
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Large Format
I gave up on acid hardening fixers- since I use mostly staining and tanning developers, I have come to enjoy TF4 from photoformulary - I also realize that one image seems to take several attemps to achieve its full potential. I am rarely satisfied with the first attempt. For 4x5 - my primary tool, I only use PMK and (now) Tri-x for the most part. It seems I can rarely acheive the print I want until the second or third attempt. i am ok with this as my impression for where a negative can go will also change in-between printing sessions- Frank
 

Ed Sukach

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Nov 27, 2002
Messages
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Location
Ipswich, Mas
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Medium Format
</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (OleTj @ Mar 24 2003, 12:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ed Sukach @ Mar 21 2003, 02:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I can only remember two outstanding attributes of crystalline quartz - It has a very high index of refraction; and it can be made without "inclusions" that would cause the energy from a laser to be "grabbed" - absorbed and converted to heat.... LOTS of heat.

Plastics, generally, are transparent to UV.&nbsp; The only other material I know of with the requisite transparency is "Iceland Spar", otherwise known as "Calcite" or "Fluorite".
Interesting stuff&nbsp; - Calcite is also the only material with two (2) indices of refraction.
That DOES complicate optical design.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Ed,

As a geologist I have to protest. "Iceland Spar" is Calcite, calcium carbonate. Fluorite is calcium fluoride; not the same thing at all. Fluorite has only one index of refraction, MOST other minerals - including quartz - have at least two. Calcite has one of the most pronounced differences, giving rise to the double refraction.

</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
More information about that UV Hasselblad lens...

I couldn't find the catalog information about the construction of this lens, but upon visiting the Edmund Scientific web site (!! Hah ... I remember them well... an echo into a sadly distant past) I came up with this, which should clarify UV lens element material somewhat.

"Calcium Flouride" (n.b. *ide*) PCX lenses - "Greater than 90% transmission from 250nm - 7um", (7,000 nm -that would be *far* infra red...). Calcium Flouride - CaF2 - (that last 2 should be a subscript).
Fairly simple lenses that cost a lot.

From memory ... I recall an article in Scientific American where "Iceland Spar" - and its dual refraction index - was used effectively by the Vikings to navigate in fog, when the sun and stars were not visible.

I'll probably be more or less obsessed with finding information about UV lenses ... My name, "Sukach", was dreived from the Scandinavian root of the English "seek"... to search, so there must be some sort of gene echo at work.
 

Ole

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Unless my illustrious forbears knew how to make a Nichol's prism, they couldn't have used "Iceland spar" as a polariser. There are many theories about which mineral was the "Sunstone", some of the theories are even plausible. But "Iolite" is not one of the good candidates...

Cyanite or "dicroite" (I can never remember what it's really called - scientifically speaking) seem to be favorites at present - at least among geologists.

Oddly enough, none of these would be of any help in dense fog. Neither would a polariser; only a compass would help. So it could have been Magnetite...

But this is getting really far off topic
wink.gif


From Norway,
 

Ed Sukach

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</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Aggie @ Apr 7 2003, 08:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Ed that was Iolite not Iceland spar the vikings used.&nbsp; It is the precursor to our modern polarizers</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Whooo ....

You are right, aggie. The Gemstone Iolite is also known as "Vikings Compass", and, apparently has been used in navigation, to determine the position of the sun in a thick fog. Precisely how - I don't know. Iolite is Magnesium Aluminum Silicate,
Mg2Al4Si5O18.

Still, I remember the SA article specifially stating that Iceland Spar, CaCO3, is, and was, capable of being used in the same fashion.

I did a Google search fo both Iolite and Iceland Spar. An interesting site is (hold on ... I copied this by hand) Dead Link Removed.

I think this site explains it all - in depth. After addressing it and trying to make sense of it ... I have a fairly intense headache. I'm going to put my feet up and make short work of a glass of Jim Beam.
 

Ole

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Here's another link:
Dead Link Removed

I remain sceptical - even of the cordierite (Yes! That's it! The one I couldn't remember! No wonder I couldn't remember "Iolite", it's a gemstone name for a mineral too soft to be a true gemstone)
wink.gif
 

Ole

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In Norwegian, we use different words for gemstones (harder than 7.5) and "decorative stones" which are softer. Topaz, garnets, all versions of corundum etc. are "true" gemstones and will not be abraded by ordinary sand in the environment. They're also chemically stable (well - stabler) unlike Cordierite, which isn't. Not that you'd notice in less than a century...

Yes, Iolite/cordierite is dichroic. But it's not a terribly good polarizer, unlike Cyanite - which is actually trichroic! If you look at a Cyanite crystal through a polarizing filter, you can see the colours changing...
 

Ole

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Next time you're out in fog, try locating the sun with a polariser.

Can't be done...
sad.gif


A nicely cleaved slice of cyanite can be used instead of an expensive filter; there's tons of perfect crystals up to 6 by 1 inches about 20 miles from my home. The locality is right next to where they supplied the entire country with millstones since prehistoric times, so the chances are the vikings knew about this.

Now, one of the biggest differences between cordierite and cyanite is that the latter easily cleaves into thin flakes, which cordierite doesn't...
 

jmcd

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2002
Messages
710
As to the first question about which enlarging paper one might wish to try, I have recently used Kodak Polymax Fine Art developed in VersaPrint. I think it is a wonderful and pleasing combination. I really enjoy these materials, and have more on order.
 
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