Deaths in Custody. Is 40 years the limit for Nikon electronics?

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Ariston

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Which is why I'm glad that I see several posts on this thread that refute that assumption.

I think the real issue at hand is that people who repair old cameras and people who repair old electronics are two mutually exclusive groups. The skills are somewhat different, and people often think something they don't understand must be a black art.
Another issue is that cameras probably use some custom components that aren't easily replaceable with off-the-shelf parts and can't be fabricated without industrial facilities. I'm not sure how often these components are the point of failure, but they are something worth considering.
Yes, the custom parts are often the issue, I think. I have had two repairmen tell me that the meter in my FM can't be fixed because they don't have the part - something under the ISO dial. The camera still makes pictures just fine, though.

I tend to prefer mechanical at this point because it seems they can be more readily repaired. But I love my N90S cameras. I snap those up every time I see one for $20, so I will always have one, electronic failure be damned! Then again, none have failed. Those things are cut from solid stone, I think. Once I dropped one... and broke the lens.

I was able to repair my all-mechanical Speed Graphic myself, and I am NOT handy with camera tools.
 

Sirius Glass

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Mechanical or electronic all will fail. I don't see that the mechanical cameras would be more reliable than electronic counterparts.

The difference is mechanical parts can be salvaged from other cameras, but the electrical parts are not replaceable, spares do not exist.
 

dynachrome

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I had three mechanical F-1 cameras overhauled last year. Even if I don't include my FTb, TLb, TX and FTQL cameras I expect to be able to shoot film with one mechanical Canon film SLR or another for many more years. Of course I have many other cameras in addition to the Canons, mechanical and electronic. My idea was that as long as color film is available, I would want to use various cameras. Eventually I would use the remaining working cameras for b&w shooting and leave color to the non-analog equipment. Film seems to be making a comeback and I also like adding N90S bodies when the price is right. I have also had enough X700s overhauled to last a good long while. If a mechanical camera is available in the mount you have lenses for, get a few and keep using them along with the electronic cameras for as long as you can keep them going. One of the cameras I enjoyed using most last year was a Nikkormat FT3 which Zacks overhauled beautifully.
 

AgX

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The difference is mechanical parts can be salvaged from other cameras, but the electrical parts are not replaceable, spares do not exist.
As you can take mechanical donor parts from another sample, you can take an electronic parts too.
 

neilt3

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As you can take mechanical donor parts from another sample, you can take an electronic parts too.
The only issue with that is that it seems a lot of cameras that have developed a fault with their electrical side tend to be the same fault .
Luckily some cameras like the Minolta X500 and X700 it's normally just the capacitor's that have failed . These are easily obtained .
Some cameras seem to fail for the same reason , so salvaging parts off a doner isn't always possible .
 

AgX

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The only issue with that is that it seems a lot of cameras that have developed a fault with their electrical side tend to be the same fault .
The same may apply with mechanical parts.


This means
-) replicating a mechanical part in other material or design
-) substituting an electronic part by some of other specification/from other manufacturer.
 

neilt3

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The same may apply with mechanical parts.


This means replicating a mechanical part in other material or design, or substituting an electronic part by some of other specification/from other manufacturer.

Exactly .
Any specific camera seems to have the same common point of failure to that model .
A lot of parts are no longer available .
Finding someone capable of making a replacement part like ( like a clock or watch repairer ) seems to be hard to find now , and will likely become even harder in the future.
This assumes that any camera repairer would even touch your camera due to lack of parts , if you can't do it your self .
 

jtk

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The only issue with that is that it seems a lot of cameras that have developed a fault with their electrical side tend to be the same fault ..

Amazon refused to sell NEW Minolta scanners and dslrs due to grief with products . Their support told me that. Later, Minolta itself in NJ told me that flood of failure caused them to stop doing those warranty "repairs". Then the hammer fell.
 

NB23

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The new decade of 2020 and onwards means your Nikon electronic cameras are hitting 40 years of age. I am talking about the F3's, FE's, FE2's and FA's. How are your collector cameras holding up? Mine has taken a big hit lately with failures of a FA, a deceased FE and my best F3 has developed an aberration causing a delay in firing. I fear these cameras won't get to 50 yr old. So what's your thoughts, stock up on a few more good users, buy F4's, or does the FM2 and F2 go to Leica M3 levels of desirable collectables?

When do you start counting?

Maybe storage is an issue? Humidity might be a cause. Camera dry cabinets might be real life-savers, after all.
Could the cause be keeping batteries in the cameras while unused? A super low but constant voltage could end up devastating.

I love my F3s and it would be a shame to lose them.
And the Leicas...
 

Ariston

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I should mention that I have had SEVERAL digital cameras die. My film cameras are far outlasting the digital cameras I have, which were made decades later! That tells me something about the trend of manufacturing standards... probably because the manufacturers know that their target customers will be "upgrading" in two years, anyway. It reminds me a lot of cell phones. I truly wonder which is better for the environment between digital and film cameras, especially if you account for all the phone cameras.
 

jtk

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I should mention that I have had SEVERAL digital cameras die. My film cameras are far outlasting the digital cameras I have, which were made decades later! That tells me something about the trend of manufacturing standards... probably because the manufacturers know that their target customers will be "upgrading" in two years, anyway. It reminds me a lot of cell phones. I truly wonder which is better for the environment between digital and film cameras, especially if you account for all the phone cameras.

None are any good if you don't use them constantly and well.
 

StepheKoontz

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Knock on wood, but I've had no problems with my OM2n. It sat for 15 years on a shelf and with some fresh batteries, works as good as it always has.
 

abruzzi

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Short of ASICs (application specific integrated circuits) and things like flexible PCBs most electronic parts are actually easier to replace since they are generic parts where you can find a part number, and a spec, and replace the failed part with an entirely different part with the same specs. The bigger problem is electronic failures can be harder to diagnose, and in the camera repair world electronic diagnosis is not as common a skill as mechanical diagnosis.

I'm sure ASICs became common later on, but the flexible PCB can be a real problem, and there isn't really a good way to repair them (thinking for instance the the flat ribbon to the back door of a Fuji GA645zi.
 

jim10219

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Which is why I'm glad that I see several posts on this thread that refute that assumption.

I think the real issue at hand is that people who repair old cameras and people who repair old electronics are two mutually exclusive groups. The skills are somewhat different, and people often think something they don't understand must be a black art.
Another issue is that cameras probably use some custom components that aren't easily replaceable with off-the-shelf parts and can't be fabricated without industrial facilities. I'm not sure how often these components are the point of failure, but they are something worth considering.
This probably lies at the core of a lot of the misconceptions around electronic cameras. A lot of camera repair people are older and have very little electronics knowledge, and won't know how to troubleshoot an electrical problem outside of replacing an entire board. Most people with electronics knowledge aren't interested in vintage cameras. They tend to be more interested in vintage sound reproduction like hifi, HAM radios, and guitar amps. It's kind of the same problem with appliance repair or automotive mechanics. Most people who do appliance repair and automotive work don't know much about electronics, so if something electrical has gone bad, their only recourse is to swap out the entire circuit board, or scrap the whole thing and call it a lost cause. They can't troubleshoot on a component level, like the hifi guys can. And they don't like to admit that they aren't skilled enough to do the job, so they blame the design of the gear, rather than their limited education. So the notion that electronics can't be repaired, or is too difficult to repair, has kind of creeped into our collective thinking.

I've repaired a bunch of electronic cameras, flashes, and meters. If I ever find a cheap one that's not working, I'll pick it up and can usually repair it and flip it for a decent profit. More often than not, it's either a loose wire, corroded contacts, dirty pot, or $0.30 component gone bad. Every once in a while, I'll run into one with a proprietary part (IC, LCD display, some switches, motors, solenoids, etc.) gone bad that you can't find new. But nine times out of ten, it's something simple, and if I need to replace a part, I'll already have it on hand. Even if it is a proprietary part, it's no harder to repair than any mechanical camera. Because in a mechanical camera, EVERYTHING is proprietary. If something needs replacing in a mechanical camera, you can't go to Mouser or DIGIKey and buy a new one. You're having to pull it from a donor camera.

My point being that mechanical cameras are actually MORE difficult to repair than electronic ones because they are far more likely to require a donor camera for parts. And it can be quite difficult finding donor gear with the correct parts still in tack at a reasonable price to make the repair worth while. Mechanical cameras just have the preception of being easier to repair because of the demographics of your average camera repair person, who likely learned the trade before electronic cameras were old enough to be in need of repair. Most are a lot more comfortable with springs and gears than a soldering iron and oscilloscope.
 

Bikerider

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I think the announcement of death is premature. Apart from my later cameras, I have a Nikon F601 dating from 1980's and two Minoltas, a XM from around 1973 and an XE1 from about 1975/6 and they are all going strong. The XM shows signs of heavy use cosmetically, but the shutter and optics are perfect. all both of the Minoltas need are a pair of LR44 batteries every year or so. The F601 is looking worn (peeling back etc) but it works as good as any Nikon I have used (and lighter).
 

Ariston

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A lot of camera repair people are older and have very little electronics knowledge, and won't know how to troubleshoot an electrical problem outside of replacing an entire board... Mechanical cameras just have the preception [sic] of being easier to repair because of the demographics of your average camera repair person, who likely learned the trade before electronic cameras were old enough to be in need of repair.

I'm not sure I see where these assumptions come from. The vast majority of the public has been using digital cameras for some time, which also need repairmen. Modern cameras are very advanced, and it is not difficult to get them repaired by someone.

The repairman in my town is an older gentleman, but he is also (or was?) an authorized Nikon repairman. He gave me a tour of his facilities, and his tools were very advanced (and expensive). He may be a little older than I am, but he is quite capable of repairing many types of cameras, from my RB67 (which he did) to my D700. In fact, it appeared to me that most of the repairs that were ongoing in his shop were for modern cameras.

For older cameras, I think it comes down to parts availability. Electronic or mechanical.
 

TheRook

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My Nikon FE and F90 are doing great! Honestly, I don't worry too much about it. If they stop working, I have several non-electronic cameras to take their place.
 

CMoore

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I'm not sure I see where these assumptions come from. The vast majority of the public has been using digital cameras for some time, which also need repairmen. Modern cameras are very advanced, and it is not difficult to get them repaired by someone.

The repairman in my town is an older gentleman, but he is also (or was?) an authorized Nikon repairman. He gave me a tour of his facilities, and his tools were very advanced (and expensive). He may be a little older than I am, but he is quite capable of repairing many types of cameras, from my RB67 (which he did) to my D700. In fact, it appeared to me that most of the repairs that were ongoing in his shop were for modern cameras.

For older cameras, I think it comes down to parts availability. Electronic or mechanical.
I do not want to put words in anybody's mouth..... he can speak for himself, but..... i THINK one of his main point was...Techs today are not trained to trouble-shoot at the component level. That is what is needed (frequently) to repair a lot of the pre 200o film cameras.Entire Boards/Circuits are not readily available
A digital camera, like a modern day car, can probably be connected to a laptop. When the offending Part/Board is located, it is replaced. That cannot easily be done with a film camera.
You frequently are forced to find out exactly Why something is not functioning properly.

My nephew worked for Oracle and now for Toyota in Houston. He is 30 years old and is the main IT guy for The ENTIRE Company in Houston.
He has an IQ of One Billion and is a total computer whiz that makes A LOT of money.
He barely knows how to solder and Does NOT know how to use an O-Scope.
 

blockend

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I've owned six Nikkormats, currently five, and an F2AS. All were purchased second hand, condition varied from mint to cosmetically terrible. All were mechanically sound, and with one exception none of the meters worked. The one that does function, is erratic and untrustworthy. From that sample and based on what I've read, mechanical Nikons do not age well in the electrical department. The alternatives to a full meter replacement are well known.
 
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I think it is interesting that in the end, many years from now, the only cameras that will be working are the oldest ones...

I have noticed electronics starting to age myself. My Canon 1n doesn't reset when I open the back to change the film. Not sure what that problem is, but I can reset it by taking the battery out. I've had other electronic cameras that just didn't work. They weren't worth fixing in the end. Fully mechanical cameras can usually be fixed without much problem. Spotmatics and Leicas will probably still be working 100 years from now.
 

Ariston

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Me too. Just consumer P&Ss, but still. The preference for tilting screens is a time bomb, flexi-cables and continued bending won't end well.
I have always thought the same thing about the tilting screens. Still, I must confess my interest in having what someone here once called a digital camera with a waist level finder. When the digital camera I currently use for work breaks (as they all seem to do), I have my eye on an Olympus camera that will scratch that itch.
 

NB23

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One word: rolleiflex!
 
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