Deaths in Custody. Is 40 years the limit for Nikon electronics?

Robin Guymer · Dec 31, 2019

The new decade of 2020 and onwards means your Nikon electronic cameras are hitting 40 years of age. I am talking about the F3's, FE's, FE2's and FA's. How are your collector cameras holding up? Mine has taken a big hit lately with failures of a FA, a deceased FE and my best F3 has developed an aberration causing a delay in firing. I fear these cameras won't get to 50 yr old. So what's your thoughts, stock up on a few more good users, buy F4's, or does the FM2 and F2 go to Leica M3 levels of desirable collectables?

Besk · Dec 31, 2019

Lets put it this way, As to 35mm cameras, I have two F2's and four N75's (for auto focus P&S) plus a few other Nikon models. The electronics WILL fail at some point. At to the N75's I a counting on some sort of failure rate curve so one will be still be working in 20 years when I will be in my 90's. The F2's will be fine.

narsuitus · Dec 31, 2019

Robin Guymer said:
So what's your thoughts ...

I have tried to avoid electronic cameras. The F and F2 mechanical cameras are the ones I use and cherish to this day. I also use F3, F4, EM, N70, and N2000 but am not counting on them being functional after their electronics die.

AgX · Dec 31, 2019

Bob Eskridge said:
The electronics WILL fail at some point.

Such does not mean they are not repairable. It depends.

guangong · Dec 31, 2019

My only electronically driven cameras are my Contax T3 and Minox LX. While some repairs are possible, most of the electronics in Nikons, etc were probably made by third party suppliers and once Nikon’s parts supply drys up, that’s it. Even more troubling is what is going to happen to your electronics laden car when electronics die. My 1983 MB 300 Turbo D runs as if new with only maintenance service (occasional new breaks, windshield wipers, etc. ) My Leica R 4 died, but with occasional CLA, my all mechanical cameras have never failed in the field. Usually, electronic cameras ONLY fail when in action. Better to keep computer in the head than in the camera.
40 yrs is a pretty good run for a camera. You most likely will mot get 40 yrs from your late model automobile.

Paul Howell · Dec 31, 2019

Last year I read about a company in Korea that was scanning then 3 d printing replacement chips, I just looked but couldn't find the link I had saved. I thought at the time it might be expensive but doable. I have both all mechanical and electronic cameras, my Minolta's 9000s are likely to fail. Made in the 80s the chips were prone to shorting out caused a number of satellites to fail earlier than anticipated. By the 90s chips were much more reliable, it's hard to say when the chip it self will fail vs the mechanics controlled by the chips.

Henning Serger · Dec 31, 2019

The oldest cameras I own and use with electronic parts are one Nikon FE2 and two Nikon FAs. They are all working fine, no problems.
I have seen much, much more broken mechanic parts in cameras than electronic parts. Therefore I remain quite relaxed concerning continued use of cameras with electronic parts. Most of them will probably outlive me ......

Best regards,
Henning

AgX · Dec 31, 2019

guangong said:
Usually, electronic cameras ONLY fail when in action. Better to keep computer in the head than in the camera.
40 yrs is a pretty good run for a camera.

There are electronic parts that degrade even if not charged,as electrolytic capacitators.

Meyer Trioplan · Dec 31, 2019

I recently picked up an As-Is Maxxum 7 (late 90's vintage) for very cheap, and I call this camera "Christine" as it seems to have a mind of its own. Not only does it suffer the aperture base plate issue, but it also gives me "Err 60" and "Err 70" messages most of the time it is turned on. The rear LCD doesn't work. After a lot of back and forth of lens mounting, mode switching, and battery reboots, I got the shutter to fire in M with the lens wide open, but on trying to load film, it zipped it all the way to the end of the roll. I've kind of consigned this thing as a goner.

Over the prior 3 years, I'd picked up a trio of the "lesser model" Maxxum 5's however, and all have worked flawlessly.

So it seems to be a YMMV sort of situation with electronic cameras, but still something pretty concerning. I've yet to have major issues with the newer Nikons I have (N60/65/75/90/8008), aside from some LCD bleed in one or two, but I tend not to use the ones lacking manual ISO setting anyway.

jtk · Dec 31, 2019

I dumped everything but a pair of Pentax ME Super in favor of a pair of Samsung (NX20 and NX500), various extraordinary Samsung lenses and carefully selected Pentax K mount primes with NX adapter. Looks like Canon will catch up in a year or two, Nikon may try, Leica won't bother. When my orphan Samsungs die I'll pick up something even better, late in their product cycle. Similar size to Leica 2F. One is mounted on a very rigid Durst 609 copy stand with 5000K Logan light box: it's bitter cold here, good time to digitally duplicate a few hundred Kodachromes (I Nikon scan B&W and Ektachromes).

I'm too young to be a collector.

jim10219 · Dec 31, 2019

AgX said:
There are electronic parts that degrade even if not charged,as electrolytic capacitators.

In fact, electrolytic caps are MORE likely to degrade if not used.

Though those are cheap and easy to replace. Their average lifespan is usually about 20-50 years, so they're probably due for a replacement, even if they're working properly now. Most other parts should outlive you. Just like a mechanical camera, electric cameras need maintenance. And unlike a mechanical camera, most of the electronic parts are easily available new (with the exception of some IC's and LCD screens). That same can't be said of a stripped gear.

Personally, I'm more comfortable working on electronics than gears. I love working on vintage electronics, especially amplifiers. Electrolytic capacitors are the most common point of failure for these things. And often when they go bad, they take out other components with them, making a small maintenance job turn into a large, time consuming repair. That's why it's important to replace the caps before they die, and not wait until something goes wrong. I'd say once every 20-30 years is good. Far less often than when you should be changing out the lubricants and seals.

I do wish that more schematics were available for cameras though. It would make troubleshooting a breeze if I didn't have to figure out how the whole thing worked on my own. Especially since we're talking about cameras that haven't been made in decades with technologies that have been long abandoned by the market. There's no good not to release schematics for this old gear. A working Nikon F5 isn't depressing the sales of a new Nikon D850.

BobD · Dec 31, 2019

I sometimes refurbish old transistor radios from the 1950s. Many still work and those that don't usually only need, at most, replacement of electrolytic capacitors (the bane of vintage electronics). Fortunately, few of these caps were used in cameras (the Minolta X-series being one exception) but they are relatively easy to replace.

I'm not saying that 1970s-era electronic cameras can't fail but I don't see it as a major issue just yet. I often buy and refurbish old cameras that are in demand today -- one being the Canon AE-1/A-1 models and they usually still work (if not abused) or can be easily revived if not.

gl_r · Dec 31, 2019

My remaining 'old' electronic cameras are used occasionally to keep them exercised. They are the EM, FG, and F80 with their respective speedlights. All are working perfectly fine yet but will no doubt die someday. When I don't know, don't really care either. They could very well outlast me.

ic-racer · Dec 31, 2019

Having high hopes for F6. 40 years on that one will get me to age 110.

CMoore · Dec 31, 2019

This has been very interesting.
But yes. I think it is safe to assume, at some point, cameras with electronic shutters or displays will fail.Resistors drift in value, caps stop working properly, wire insulation degrades. As you guys say, other than the Elytics, nobody can really propose a time line.
Like Jim said, for the electronic stuff, a Schem would be Very Helpful.
Who knows if equivalent Value/Sized parts will stay in production.

Nobody ever saw this coming.
Digital really put the fear of God into people like me that only shoot film. Especially the 35mm SLR. That stuff went heavily electronic..
Guitar amps are great. You can take the tube socket or power switch from a Well Made/ Hand-Wired amp that was built in 2020, and install straight into a a 1969 Fender/Marshall.

But that is the problem for us. There are no modern day classics being made.
I really admire you guys that are working on these old cameras.
I am waiting for a Canon F-1 New and Minolta X-570 to come back from Zacks.
20 years from now, i do not know if other owners will be so lucky

AgX · Jan 1, 2020

In the comparisons of electronics repair versus mechanicakl repair here at Apug I got the impression that many people think a dead circuit principally is dead for good and any mechanical failure can be solved by just tinkering with a screwdriver.

dkonigs · Jan 1, 2020

AgX said:
In the comparisons of electronics repair versus mechanicakl repair here at Apug I got the impression that many people think a dead circuit principally is dead for good and any mechanical failure can be solved by just tinkering with a screwdriver.

Which is why I'm glad that I see several posts on this thread that refute that assumption.

I think the real issue at hand is that people who repair old cameras and people who repair old electronics are two mutually exclusive groups. The skills are somewhat different, and people often think something they don't understand must be a black art.
Another issue is that cameras probably use some custom components that aren't easily replaceable with off-the-shelf parts and can't be fabricated without industrial facilities. I'm not sure how often these components are the point of failure, but they are something worth considering.

AgX · Jan 1, 2020

dkonigs said:
Another issue is that cameras probably use some custom components that aren't easily replaceable with off-the-shelf parts and can't be fabricated without industrial facilities. I'm not sure how often these components are the point of failure, but they are something worth considering.

Yes , that is the critical point: the younger the models the more likely they got custom made parts. A good example would be the AE-1, the first camera that was digitally controlled. And even standard parts may no longer be made.
However also mechanical parts often must be replaced. In case of lacking spares, these must be remade. Often doable, but it can get costly. Just think of making tiny gears.

Besk · Jan 1, 2020

Maybe the mechanical camera will be worth repairing vs a plastic fantastic with broken electronics isn't. So far I have only thrown away one - a N70.

destroya · Jan 1, 2020

was wondering what would be worse. to not use a camera for years or to use it every few days? once a year I "exercise" my unused cameras, run them thru at all the shutter speeds to keep them used. should they be exercised more often?

CMoore · Jan 1, 2020

I could certainly be wrong, but i would argue that a Few Days Per Month would be a lot better.

Andrew O'Neill · Jan 1, 2020

I have four ME's (two Supers). Hopefully they won't fail. If they do, there's always my two lovely K1000's, and various other cameras that do not have electronics.

Vincent Peri · Jan 1, 2020

I have 2 Fe's, 4 FE2's, 4 FA's, 6 F2A's, 8 F3HP's and an FM. I think the meters are slightly off on the FM and 1 FE. Not bad.

spark · Jan 1, 2020

My experience is that solid state electronics is most likely to fail due to mechanical problems- cracked solder joints, poor seal on chip leads, loose wires, etc. Some of these were relics of poor original assembly that can take years to appear. Cameras assembled in a manufacturers' own (not contracted) factory are usually better built. Repair of tiny flexible PCB's is possible, but requires some specialized solder tools. Also, if a custom chip is defective it's likely only available from a donor camera.

Chan Tran · Jan 1, 2020

Mechanical or electronic all will fail. I don't see that the mechanical cameras would be more reliable than electronic counterparts.

Deaths in Custody. Is 40 years the limit for Nikon electronics?

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