Dear Ilford

[esearing]

I love your film and paper products and have never been let down by your quality.

Recently I saw some photographs printed on long expired "Portriga" paper. It had a lovely brown tone right out of the developer/stop/fix/wash without toning. While I enjoy toning your warmtone MGFB paper it is difficult to get that perfect warmth through out the image, and difficult to maintain the same tone across various images. Nelson's gold toner gives a similar effect but must be used at high temperatures for up to 20 minutes.

While I realize it was likely the amount of Cadmium or other toxic chemical in the paper that provided that lovely tonality, I am requesting that your R&D (if exists) find a magical alternative component to incorporate into paper to revive that true warmth once again. I stumbled on several articles from 1990's touting the beauty of that paper and the glow that it had. Seeing it first hand was almost a religious experience.

I suppose there could also be a chemical method to shift the tone of a paper that could be incorporated into the workflow without the need for traditional toners. And preferably without a heavy polysulfide smell.

Thanks for your consideration.

 

[Ian Grant]

If you use Ilford IT-8 toner which is a Bichromate rehalogenising bleach follwed by washing and redeveloping in a simple Pyrocatechin developer you can emulate Portriga with many papers.

Ian

 

[pentaxuser]

OP, you may get a reply from Ilford here but since the company was sold to Pemberstone and Simon Galley left the Ilford team the Ilford-Photrio relationship has changed somewhat. In the "Harman" days you could expect an answer from Simon Galley on Photrio but that is no longer a given.

I'd send your plea to Ilford direct, making it clear that you have posted the same on Photrio to see what happens. I suspect if Ilford were able to do anything and at a cost that didn't make the price for the product economically non-viable Ilford would have done it

pentaxuser

 

[Photonuser]

What about this?https://www.freestylephoto.biz/41582-Foma-Fomatone-131-VC-FB-Warmtone-Glossy-8x10-25-Sheets. The Foma papers have the similar designations to the old Agfa papers for example 111 is for a glossy surface and 112 is for matte. I tried some Fomabrom 111 just to see if it was like the old Record Rapid ( my favorite paper). It's probably the closest graded paper to it available today. I like the Adox Mcc too.

 

[R.Gould]

Fomatone is very close to the old Record Rapid, possibly the warmest of the warm tone papers around today, I develop it in Fotospeed WT10 at 1/19 and with the correct image it can come out with an almost sepia look, very slow though, and the grades it achieves go up to 3 1/2, if you like the Portriga, which I used to love until Agfa discontinued it, it is well worth trying

 

[Arthurwg]

Are we talking about Fomatone VC or graded paper?

 

[Arthurwg]

And while you're at it, Ilford, how about some 220 B&W?

 

[Martin Rickards]

The warmest I remember is Forte Fortezo developed in Agfa Neutol. I've still got a few sheets of 24x30 grade 2 FB

 

[pentaxuser]

And while you're at it, Ilford, how about some 220 B&W?

Not really part of this thread but if I recall correctly, Ilford has given an explanation on Photrio as to why a revival of 220 will not happen. You might want to do a search on Photrio unless someone can pinpoint the thread on which it was given.

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

And while you're at it, Ilford, how about some 220 B&W?

Not really part of this thread but if I recall correctly, Ilford has given an explanation on Photrio as to why a revival of 220 will not happen. You might want to do a search on Photrio unless someone can pinpoint the thread on which it was given.

pentaxuser

Mr. Galley's thread with the reasons: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...ly-from-ilford-photo-harman-technology.18206/

 

[pentaxuser]

There are a few on Photrio who have a brain geared to recall. You are one of them Matt. Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[R.Gould]

Are we talking about Fomatone VC or graded paper?

Fomstone is only available as a VC paper, I think Fomabrom is a graded paper

 

[Lachlan Young]

I love your film and paper products and have never been let down by your quality.

Recently I saw some photographs printed on long expired "Portriga" paper. It had a lovely brown tone right out of the developer/stop/fix/wash without toning. While I enjoy toning your warmtone MGFB paper it is difficult to get that perfect warmth through out the image, and difficult to maintain the same tone across various images. Nelson's gold toner gives a similar effect but must be used at high temperatures for up to 20 minutes.

While I realize it was likely the amount of Cadmium or other toxic chemical in the paper that provided that lovely tonality, I am requesting that your R&D (if exists) find a magical alternative component to incorporate into paper to revive that true warmth once again. I stumbled on several articles from 1990's touting the beauty of that paper and the glow that it had. Seeing it first hand was almost a religious experience.

I suppose there could also be a chemical method to shift the tone of a paper that could be incorporated into the workflow without the need for traditional toners. And preferably without a heavy polysulfide smell.

Thanks for your consideration.

Generous exposure & shorter development will enhance warmth in a brownish direction, especially with Fomatone. MGWT is slightly different from traditional WT papers in that it's made using highly controlled crystal growth on the same plant as Delta 100 etc. Also important to remember that Portriga was not on a pure white base (at least not the European version) - Record Rapid was on a white base - which will also impact on perception of warmth.

Regarding certain metal salts, I'm increasingly wondering if the mythical properties were to do with Cd salts, given that they largely seemed to have been removed by the 1980's, or a change in hardener from the late 80's onwards that necessitated a change from ammonium salts to sodium salts (apparently this is what the 'plus' of certain Ilford films related to, according to a recent podcast that toured the Ilford plant & spoke with some of the engineers responsible - obviously films are AgBrI, & paper AgClBrI, but I think the point holds). I suspect that this changeover was likely industry-wide at least in UK/USA/Japan/Western Europe over a gradual period of time (1985-2000?) & may better explain the loss of 'lithability' of certain papers & other changes in their image colour/ toning characteristics, as well as the withdrawal of some papers like Ektalure which may have been felt unprofitable to reformulate in the market of the late 1990's. Something for the home emulsion makers to explore further...

If you're wanting a specific material in small quantities, ADOX is likely to be a better choice once their coating machine is fully operational at the desired quality level - not least as we'll hopefully see Polywarmtone (finally!) reappear.

 

[Arthurwg]

Mr. Galley's thread with the reasons: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...ly-from-ilford-photo-harman-technology.18206/

Re: 220 film: That response was 2006. I'm hoping something has or will eventually change and we'll get 220 from somewhere.

 

[mshchem]

Ilford Art 300 tones to nice warm browns in strong (1+3) KRSe toner. Foma makes some beautiful papers as well. 220 film is done.

 

[pentaxuser]

Re: 220 film: That response was 2006. I'm hoping something has or will eventually change and we'll get 220 from somewhere.

When you look at the reasons given, I'd have thought that the investment to restore 220 is massive. Supply Ilford with evidence that there are enough customers, willing to pay the price Ilford needs to make it viable and 220 might be re-born.

pentaxuser

 

[fs999]

Did you try Caffenol with normal papers ? It has a warm tone due to instant coffee...

 

[AgX]

Ilford meanwhile remain silent...

 

[removed account4]

Did you try Caffenol with normal papers ? It has a warm tone due to instant coffee...

sure does !

 

[darkroommike]

And while you're at it, Ilford, how about some 220 B&W?

For you and the six other guys still shooting 220 B&W? I feel your pain but all film manufacturers have pretty much said that 220 is a dead horse.

 

[Harman Tech Service]

Hi Eric,
To address your original post we are not planning to expand our FB range at the moment. The addition of Cadmium also improved the keeping properties of papers as well as advantages to colour so it would definitely be desirable. Unfortunately, Cadmium is a known carcinogen and we are unable to use it in any of our products both because of risks to our staff and to our customers. I can only suggest more experimentation with toners using our Warmtone and Art 300 papers. I had the pleasure of meeting Tim Rudman (a very skilled toner here in the UK) a few months ago and saw the magic that he could perform with toning and duo toning.
On the 220 issue that was added there is no change. We do not have the capability of finishing 220 film and to recoup the cost of investment would mean that the films would be too expensive for enough people to want to buy.
Sorry,
David