Dear Abby: Familial Advice Sought

[eddym]

If I reply that a photograph has great color and THEN I notice it is a black and white photograph, what then?

Black and white are colors!! In fact, they are the BEST colors!!

 

[Christopher Walrath]

Yeah, but that won't fly with two angry women. It would turn out to be just another lecture on photographic physics, the very thing I am trying to avoid.

Maybe I could shmooze through with something akin to 'I can tell what the colors are and that means you captured them really good.'

 

[Paul Jenkin]

Chris,

I have to agree with Sirius Glass. It's bite the bullet time IMHO.

My wife and I booked a holiday to Egypt some years ago. I had a good camera and lenses ranging from 28mm to 300mm + a macro. She had insisted on upgrading her film point and shoot for a new, digital camera - a Sony DSC-T10. This would fit in her bag (it's the size of a credit card but a few times thicker), take wonderful shots of every possible kind, make the bed, de-flea the cats and cure third-world debt. Or so the advert suggested....

I came back with some passable images - one's I was happy with and that we've subsequently had printed and framed. She came back with, for the most part, a pile of crap. She has a reasonable eye and takes a decent photo but she believed that her Sony was capable of taking ambient light shots in Pharonic tombs, low-light morning and evening shots, action shots of camel races and other entertainments we attended - and it just couldn't.

She asked me for my opinion on why her shots weren't up to much. I said I'd told her before we bought the Sony that it couldn't possibly cope with the situations we'd be shooting in and she hadn't listened - so I was only prepared to comment further if she listened and acted on my comments / advice; otherwise, what was the point?

We went to Kenya a couple of years later. By that time, she had a Nikon D200 and came back with some really good images. Okay, she's into digital but at least being straight paid off and the end result was testament.

Your sister-in-law is a different proposition, though. The only saving grace is that if she buggers up enough weddings, her customers will give her all the "feedback" she can handle - and then some. I'd leave well alone on that one. Those who have delusions of adequacy are much harder work and have a lot further to fall.....

 

[Red Robin]

TO! I gotta 2nd that. After a while it's best to let her find her own way. I find it keeps the peace if I just work on my own stuff unless I'm asked. Good Luck.

 

[Worker 11811]

She asked me for my opinion on why her shots weren't up to much. I said I'd told her before we bought the Sony that it couldn't possibly cope with the situations we'd be shooting in and she hadn't listened - so I was only prepared to comment further if she listened and acted on my comments / advice; otherwise, what was the point?

As with any technology, automatic things (cameras) are a great convenience but machines and computers can not cope in many situations where a practiced human hand can. Automatic cameras are great at producing pictures in "average" conditions but the farther you stray outside that "average" situation the worse the results will be.

The answer is to either kick the camera out of automatic mode in one way or another or get a camera which can be operated manually.

People aren't necessarily suckered into buying new technology that doesn't work but they often don't fully understand the implications of the technology they are using and how to use it correctly, whether it be an automatic device or a fully manual one.

When Great Uncle George said, "You press the button, we do the rest," it was both a blessing and a curse.

I'd say that your wife found herself on the wrong side of Great Uncle George's curse. The problem lies in how you explain that to somebody who doesn't understand, who doesn't want to understand and who often doesn't have the capacity to understand.

 

[k_jupiter]

BTW Chris,

I think your photography would look much better if you went to 8x10 format.


tim in san jose

 

[donbga]

Your post underscores what I've said for several years now. And that is people can learn photographic composition more quickly using a digital camera than they will using a film camera in the same amount of time.

Why else was Polaroid often preferred by amateurs and pros in it's day? Instant feedback! I mean that's why Dr. Land invented the film to begin with right (not considering privacy issues). Instant gratification. And if that wasn't the reason, then Polaroid film was certainly marketed that way.

Okay start the hate mail now.

 

[lxdude]

Your post underscores what I've said for several years now. And that is people can learn photographic composition more quickly using a digital camera than they will using a film camera in the same amount of time.

IF they apply themselves.

 

[JBrunner]

Most people that are family pay far less attention to what you say than how you say it.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Most people won't take help unless they solicit it. I'd leave it alone.

 

[fotch]

If you cannot say something nice, don't say anything.

 

[greybeard]

If I reply that a photograph has great color and THEN I notice it is a black and white photograph, what then?

"...I meant, great tonality!"

 

[Bateleur]

Chris, tkamiya has some sound advise, i agree with it to a point. You do care far too much, and your love for them AND photography shows.

...

I agree with Rick, a gentle hand can go a long way.

 

[Black Dog]

Relax, try and see the funny side of it and be supportive whenever and however you can... and remember " in a perfect world we'd all sing in tune-but this is reality so give me some room" [Billy Bragg].

 

[magkelly]

I'm firmly in the "be kind but honest" camp on this one. No, it won't make you the most popular guy in the house but it's not going to help them learn if you avoid the issue. Tell your wife when she's ready to ask you for it and take advice with the love and experience it's given you'll gladly give it, but until then in deference to her feelings you're not going to offer it if you can't be honest without offending her. Ditto, the sister in law. If she asks you point blank if she's ready to be a full on pro then say "not yet" because doing otherwise isn't doing her any favors. As an aspiring pro I know I don't really like it when people give too much unsolicited advice or when they try to correct my photos without asking me, but I do have respect for people who are more experienced than I am. I do ask questions and I usually do take any good advice that's given.

A person's photography can be a very personal thing though and with some people sometimes "friendly advice" can come off sounding rather superior. I've had several pros in the past compliment my work and offer what I thought was pretty good advice. I've also had other supposedly professional people advise me to do things that I just know are idiotic in the extreme. Both sets of people of course thought that they were absolutely justified in offering said advice and completely in the right.

If your wife and sister in law are going to get huffy at the very idea of constrictive criticism they're not going to get very far as photographers, particularly the SIL who thinks she's going pro. Her job is all about taking it from clients and she'll soon learn that they won't throw their punches one bit if she's not up to doing quality work.

Their real problem is they do have someone in front of them whose photography is at a much higher level. They can see the difference between what they are doing and what you are doing and it makes them feel inferior. They want to be doing your level of work right now, and because they can't it frustrates them and they get all bent out of shape when you try to offer advice. Don't fall for that. Don't lose your manners but don't let them get away with that crap or they will never become the photographers they want to be. Telling them what they want to hear, that's not the ticket here. Not if you genuinely want them to get better. You can't stop the SIL from hanging out a shingle, but you don't have to play into her delusions of grandeur either.

They may not like it when you say that there's room for improvement, but letting them think that they are far better than they are isn't really good for them either. I know that I wouldn't like it if someone lied to me just to keep the peace, but I don't like it when people step forward to critique every photograph I take either. Wait till you're asked, but definitely be honest and kind, that's my take on this situation.

 

[k_jupiter]

I'm firmly in the "be kind but honest" camp on this one. No, it won't make you the most popular guy in the house but it's not going to help them learn if you avoid the issue. Tell your wife when she's ready to ask you for it and take advice with the love and experience it's given you'll gladly give it, but until then in deference to her feelings you're not going to offer it if you can't be honest without offending her. Ditto, the sister in law. If she asks you point blank if she's ready to be a full on pro then say "not yet" because doing otherwise isn't doing her any favors. As an aspiring pro I know I don't really like it when people give too much unsolicited advice or when they try to correct my photos without asking me, but I do have respect for people who are more experienced than I am. I do ask questions and I usually do take any good advice that's given.

A person's photography can be a very personal thing though and with some people sometimes "friendly advice" can come off sounding rather superior. I've had several pros in the past compliment my work and offer what I thought was pretty good advice. I've also had other supposedly professional people advise me to do things that I just know are idiotic in the extreme. Both sets of people of course thought that they were absolutely justified in offering said advice and completely in the right.

If your wife and sister in law are going to get huffy at the very idea of constrictive criticism they're not going to get very far as photographers, particularly the SIL who thinks she's going pro. Her job is all about taking it from clients and she'll soon learn that they won't throw their punches one bit if she's not up to doing quality work.

Their real problem is they do have someone in front of them whose photography is at a much higher level. They can see the difference between what they are doing and what you are doing and it makes them feel inferior. They want to be doing your level of work right now, and because they can't it frustrates them and they get all bent out of shape when you try to offer advice. Don't fall for that. Don't lose your manners but don't let them get away with that crap or they will never become the photographers they want to be. Telling them what they want to hear, that's not the ticket here. Not if you genuinely want them to get better. You can't stop the SIL from hanging out a shingle, but you don't have to play into her delusions of grandeur either.

They may not like it when you say that there's room for improvement, but letting them think that they are far better than they are isn't really good for them either. I know that I wouldn't like it if someone lied to me just to keep the peace, but I don't like it when people step forward to critique every photograph I take either. Wait till you're asked, but definitely be honest and kind, that's my take on this situation.

magkelly,

I don't think you get it. It's none of his business. I think Chris' work is nice. But he ain't god. Other than that... just move along folks, there is nothing to see. It's not his job in life to improve their work.

If they want his help, they will ask. And if he is smart... he'll tell them to take a class. He will continue to have conjugal relations with the wife and not have to wonder if the SIL has poisoned the potato salad at family functions.

Why would you think he has the right to even have an opinion about someone elses work? Or maybe this is how you approach relationships?

tim in san jose

 

[magkelly]

Jupiter,

Are you married? Ever lived with someone? You can't just walk away from commenting when you live in the same household. It's not that simple. Whether or not he likes it the guy "is" involved in their work. From the sound of it the wife and SIL have asked for his opinion, which is only natural since he's a more experienced photographer. Problem is they didn't always like what he had to say, but do you really think they will just let him shut up and leave things along?

Not likely. Yeah, he could just nod and smile and fake it, but I can almost guarantee you that won't help. Sooner or later he's going to have to give advice again. That's the nature of being involved with someone. I personally would think less of someone who just ducked the issue. I'd much rather have someone give their honest opinion of my work, diplomatically if possible, than fake appreciation for something that's just not up to snuff. Lying to your partner to be polite, making nice just to avoid conflict, that's just not very good for a relationship. Not to mention it's a bit patronizing as well.

He's got some experience. It's only natural that they will come to him for more advice. He's actually caught between a bit of a rock and a hard place here. He can't not comment by virtue of the fact that he's married to the one woman and related to the other. I don't think maybe he should offer advice unsolicited, but if he must then he shouldn't lie outright about it. They won't grow as photographer's that way and more importantly if they catch onto the fact that he's only saying something nice to keep the peace it will likely lead to even more trouble for him down the road. Not what he wants.

Lots of people will lie to their spouses (or their relatives) to be nice,to avoid conflict, but in my book that's always a big mistake waiting to happen. If someone can't take advice well then of course you don't offer it until they ask, but if they do, you can't just say whatever will make them happy. That's just not very effective in the long run. Sooner or later doing that things will always end up badly. That's all I'm saying...

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I've been in Chris' situation. To give an honest opinion of someone's work, you have to make sure they are ready for it. A lot of people take critique and advice very personally, and don't see the opportunity to improve.

So I make sure they are ready for it, or I will not waste my time on it. Ask - "Are you prepared for an honest opinion?".

It's an art to communicate an honest opinion of work I think stinks. But it doesn't help to lie. It never does. But to give the opinion in such a way that there is still motivation to continue practicing, and not destroying their enjoyment of the hobby and medium.

But, only offer your opinion if you are specifically solicited, and if you are, make sure they are prepared for it and accepting of the outcome. You have to lay down the rules before you can play. That's my advice.

Jupiter,

Are you married? Ever lived with someone? You can't just walk away from commenting when you live in the same household. It's not that simple. Whether or not he likes it the guy "is" involved in their work. From the sound of it the wife and SIL have asked for his opinion, which is only natural since he's a more experienced photographer. Problem is they didn't always like what he had to say, but do you really think they will just let him shut up and leave things along?

Not likely. Yeah, he could just nod and smile and fake it, but I can almost guarantee you that won't help. Sooner or later he's going to have to give advice again. That's the nature of being involved with someone. I personally would think less of someone who just ducked the issue. I'd much rather have someone give their honest opinion of my work, diplomatically if possible, than fake appreciation for something that's just not up to snuff. Lying to your partner to be polite, making nice just to avoid conflict, that's just not very good for a relationship. Not to mention it's a bit patronizing as well.

He's got some experience. It's only natural that they will come to him for more advice. He's actually caught between a bit of a rock and a hard place here. He can't not comment by virtue of the fact that he's married to the one woman and related to the other. I don't think maybe he should offer advice unsolicited, but if he must then he shouldn't lie outright about it. They won't grow as photographer's that way and more importantly if they catch onto the fact that he's only saying something nice to keep the peace it will likely lead to even more trouble for him down the road. Not what he wants.

Lots of people will lie to their spouses (or their relatives) to be nice,to avoid conflict, but in my book that's always a big mistake waiting to happen. If someone can't take advice well then of course you don't offer it until they ask, but if they do, you can't just say whatever will make them happy. That's just not very effective in the long run. Sooner or later doing that things will always end up badly. That's all I'm saying...