De Vere 504 Neg. carrier

[Rob Ruttan]

I just picked up a De Vere 504 and am baffled by the negative carrier. It has masking strips. I think I get the principle: open the carrier, put the neg down in it (right now, 35 mm.), line up the masks, close the carrier, put it in place, adjust masking strips as need be. Is it really that simple? I have bits of film hanging out the sides...looks to me like I'm going to damage the negs. Am I doing something wrong?

 

[alexphoto]

Hi Rob, The 504 carriers take negative inserts for formats from 35mm to 5x4, a separate carrier for each format. They come in 2 parts to be inserted into the top and bottom of the carrier. It sounds as though you don't have any. The sliding masking strips are to be used to with the inserts but generally they are slid out of the way. Hope this is of some use.
Alex

 

[Rob Ruttan]

Thanks, Alex. That's helpful.

Rob

 

[Ross Chambers]

Rob, are you referring to the the 4 slides which mask off the light when "zooming in" to select a smaller part of the neg when recomposing on the baseboard? (not that I ever do this, my negs are always beautifully composed ;-)

The border made by these blades is not sharp enough to be useful on the print, but it screens any spilled light which will bounce back at random.

Enjoy your DeVere, I do.

Regards - Ross

 

[Rob Ruttan]

De Vere neg carriers, part 2!

Is there any real reason I can't make my own out of stiff cardboard, plastic, tin, etc? A place near Toronto sells carriers for $82.00 Canadian a piece! Seems a little nutty to me!

 

[Martin Aislabie]

Is there any real reason I can't make my own out of stiff cardboard, plastic, tin, etc? A place near Toronto sells carriers for $82.00 Canadian a piece! Seems a little nutty to me!

Rob, you could try Second-hand Darkrooms in the UK.
http://www.secondhanddarkroom.co.uk/
They have a good selection of 2nd hand neg carriers for the 504.
Nice bloke & good service.
Actually 82 Canadian isn't a bad price for a new set of Neg Carriers.
Like all things DeVere/Odyssey make they are nicely made and last a lifetime.
Thats what makes the 2nd hand bits such a good deal - you will never wear them out.
Have fun

Martin

 

[Peter De Smidt]

What ones do you need?

 

[Rob Ruttan]

What ones do you need?

35mm, 6x6 and 6x9. And by the way, your photographs are bloody fantastic!

Rob

 

[Peter De Smidt]

Hi Rob, First off, thanks! Second, I have three De-Vere enlargers, and so I might have some spare insert plates. Let me do some rooting around tomorrow night. (A brief look turned up a spare 35mm set of inserts.) I usually use the glass inserts anyway, and so I don't often use the standard inserts. Speaking of the glass inserts, these are pieces of glass the same size as the metal inserts, including having two bevels. A few years ago I bought some for a reasonable amount from Focal Point in Florida. http://fpointinc.com/glass.htm I've heard some talk that Mike (the focal point guy) has been ill, and so you might want to call. You can get anti-newton if you'd like.

 

[palewin]

35mm, 6x6 and 6x9. Rob

Rob: You might be able to use the 6x9 masks for both your 6x9 and your 6x6 negs by using those sliding blinds to mask off the extraneous light when you use the carrier for the smaller (6x6) negs. I don't have quite as big a jump, I use my 6x7 masks for 6x7 and 6x6 with no problems. Having a set for each format is the ideal, but as you've noticed, given the cost, sometimes compromise in necessary!

 

[Mick Fagan]

I have had a couple of neg carriers made for my 504 DeVere. I would strongly suggest you either purchase OEM carriers, or get them manufactured using LASER cutting or like manufacturing.

The second neg carrier I had manufactured for my Horizon panoramic camera was LASER cut, the first I had made was CNC machined by a milling machine and it wasn't accurate enough.

Don't know why, neither did the fella who did the machining. However after deciding to do it with a LASER cutting CNC machine, the material didn't warp, so I had edge to edge sharpness in all four corners as well as the centre.

What you should remember is that you are enlarging a negative which should be very accurately aligned with the lens and baseboard/easel. If this isn't accurate enough then the possibilities of using your enlarger for what it is certainly capable of, will be immeasurably reduced.

Mick.

 

[Rob Ruttan]

Mick: Improvising my own seems the way to go, given how much I've paid already and how expensive De Vere frames are. I might not get absolute precision, but it'll do for now. The metal shop teacher at my school is a photographer, and he is willing to try making me some metal frames. They won't be 'laser cut', but I'm not Ansel Adams either!

The gentleman I bought the enlarger from sold it to me on consignment, and insists the seller used the metal framing strips. I'm dubious, but I know the fellow who sold me the enlarger pretty well and he'd sooner catch fire than lie to a customer. I've also seen work the previous owner did...off the scale good. The mystery deepens! I wonder, does ANYONE use only the moveable metal strips?

 

[Trevor Crone]

I wonder, does ANYONE use only the moveable metal strips?

Rob,

I assume you are refering to the masking blades on your carrier? Is so, yes I do. However my DeVere has the four blades built into the enlarger itself and not into the negative carrier like the one you have. I think yours is an early DeVere 504, which in my opinion has the superior negative carrier. DeVere redesigned the negative carrier to a simple hinged type, the actual hinges are just two nylon strips. I use twin 5x4 AN ring glasses (top & bottom), no inserts and just mask off for the smaller formats. I use a 4 bladed easel to give me the clean/sharp print borders I prefer.

Regards,
Trevor.

 

[Rob Ruttan]

Rob,

I assume you are refering to the masking blades on your carrier? Is so, yes I do. However my DeVere has the four blades built into the enlarger itself and not into the negative carrier like the one you have. I think yours is an early DeVere 504, which in my opinion has the superior negative carrier. DeVere redesigned the negative carrier to a simple hinged type, the actual hinges are just two nylon strips. I use twin 5x4 AN ring glasses (top & bottom), no inserts and just mask off for the smaller formats. I use a 4 bladed easel to give me the clean/sharp print borders I prefer.

Regards,
Trevor.

Trevor,

Now that's interesting...yes, I suspect it is an older enlarger. Hmmm. Time to head to the basement!

 

[Rob Ruttan]

De Vere neg carrier, part 3!

O.K., I have two left hands...if it's possible, could someone who uses the masking strips please fire off a quick rundown of HOW!?! I know that's a pain, and would be really grateful!

Rob

 

[Peter De Smidt]

Yes, you have the older, and superior, negative carrier. You do not use the carrier without either the metal negative inserts or the glass plates! You will wreck negatives trying to mount them on the masking blades. That is not what they are for! For $25, including shipping, I'd send you a used De Vere 35mm negative inserts. After looking at them, you can then decide if you want to fabricate others. Personally, I get the required glass inserts, and then make cut out opaque mask, out of whatever, for the various openning sizes. Glass holds the negatives flat, but there are more surfaces to keep clean, and you can get Newton's rings.

On another matter, the whole point of an enlarger like a De Vere is that it is a precision instrument. You can align the three planes (baseboard, lens stage, negative stage.)

 

[Paul.]

When I baught my 504 there was no 6x6 inserts, you can use the 6x7 insert but it is a commpleat faf. Odysy sold me a pair of secondhand 6x6 inserts for £20 sterlin plus postage. worth every penny.

Enjoy the enlarger I find it a wonderful machine.

Regards Paul.

 

[Trevor Crone]

Sorry Rob I misread your question, re. moveable masking strips. I should have made it clear that I just use these to mask off unwanted light.........not to hold the negative! As Peter said using them to hold your negatives would damage the neg.

I'm sure you've gathered by now you will either need the metal inserts for the required format or 4x5 glass plates. Although you could use an upper glass plate (ANR) and a lower metal insert. As most negatives curl upper most this will keep your negatives flat, particularly the larger formats.

Sorry if I mislead you on the use of the masking strips.

Regards,

Trevor.

 

[Peter De Smidt]

I'm sure you've gathered by now you will either need the metal inserts for the required format or 4x5 glass plates. Although you could use an upper glass plate (ANR) and a lower metal insert. As most negatives curl upper most this will keep your negatives flat, particularly the larger formats.

Trevor.

Trevor makes a good suggestion, and this is my preferred method with 35mm and 120mm films. With 4x5 I use both glass plates.

-Peter

 

[Mark Burley]

I have a spare set of 35mm carrier plates for a 504 that I might be persuaded to part with. I too have the older neg carrier system and only use the sliding blades to mask off unwanted light.

But I do have another question for you and all others who might be watching this thread. On my antiquated Devere 504 I have a multigrade head with two mirror/light mixing boxes with different sized apertures. One gives me approx 6x6cms of light and the other 5x4 inches, I have been told by an old friend who printed with Devere 504s for many years that I should also have another mirror/light mixing box for 35mm. Each of these boxes, he tells me, condenses the light for each format. Although I get reasonable results from using the two boxes that I have. I should expect to get a more intense light output with the 35mm box too.

The same guy also told me to contact Odysey for a new light box (which I will do) - My point is - whilst I am happy to lose my spare carrier plates I guess that perhaps your enlarger might be missing a few other bits too...

Mark

 

[MartinP]

I used a De Vere 504 with a colour head for a few years commercially and, so far as I recall, I used the 5x4 light box for all formats down to 35mm. Obviously going the other way round and trying a medium-format box on sheet film would be daft, but leaving the bigger light-box in place seemed to work twenty years ago.

Is there much difference between a 6x6 exposure with the "right" light box and one using the 5x4 ?

 

[Mark Burley]

I think I get about a stop, to a stop and a half difference light wise. It certainly does cut exposure times dramatically for me.

Mark

 

[MartinP]

Hmmmm, so I need to get all those wasted minutes back somehow . . . Thinking more carefully, I may have avoided changing the light-box because within a short period I would have to print from 35mm to 5x4, with perhaps some inter-neg work too. There, I feel better having rationalised it.

 

[Peter De Smidt]

I too get about a stop.

 

[Mark Burley]

One more point...

I do have an additional problem with one of the (6x6cm) boxes though. I get some bright points in the top left corner. could it be that the diffusion sheet is scratched on the inside?

I tend to move the neg carrier around to try and compensate for this. As in turn it 90 degrees, do you think this would make any difference to exposure? It does not seem to.

I suppose my next question is - are the diffusion sheets replaceable?

Mark