David Alan Harvey kicked out of Magnum

[Alan Edward Klein]

This was news last December.

Araki, the famous Japanese photographer, is praised for similar behavior. Wonder why.

Different culture?

 

[pentaxuser]

There appears to have been an assumption that in a photographic forum most of us know about Magnum(maybe) and most of the professional photographers on it( appears much less likely) So the original assumption at least amongst those of us who want to respond may well be not founded

Frankly my interest in photographers tend to result from whatever role they may have had in general news that is topical but not in them per se

By the way this is not me making a virtue of my ignorance but simply telling the truth of the extent of my knowledge

pentaxuser

 

[logan2z]

This was news last December.

It was news yesterday. He was initially suspended pending an investigation. He was officially removed from Magnum yesterday.

 

[logan2z]

From my brief search, it looks like just another club for the elitist's.

Not exactly.

https://www.magnumphotos.com/about-magnum/overview/

 

[logan2z]

There appears to have been an assumption that in a photographic forum most of us know about Magnum(maybe) and most of the professional photographers on it( appears much less likely)

I have to admit I do find it surprising that members of this forum who can tell you everything there is to know about film developers, alternative processes, darkroom technique etc. have never heard of some of the world's most well known photographers, many of whom who have created some of history's most iconic images. I guess I keep forgetting that Photrio is more about gear and photographic technique than the art of photography.

 

[Wayne]

I don't know how provisional it is to not know DAH. I've now looked at a few hundred of his images and see nothing that would make me remember him.

There appears to have been an assumption that in a photographic forum most of us know about Magnum(maybe) and most of the professional photographers on it( appears much less likely) So the original assumption at least amongst those of us who want to respond may well be not founded

Frankly my interest in photographers tend to result from whatever role they may have had in general news that is topical but not in them per se

By the way this is not me making a virtue of my ignorance but simply telling the truth of the extent of my knowledge

pentaxuser

I've gone through a bunch of images from a random 15 to 20Magnum members from various countries to find out why I was ignorant of them and and the reason quickly became obvious. That's not to say they don't or shouldn't have an honorable mention in the eyes of others especially in different cultures, but OTOH I see no reason to apologize for my ignorance.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Not exactly.

https://www.magnumphotos.com/about-magnum/overview/

If you have to become a member by appointment or otherwise, and can be "removed", it's an elitist's group.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

I have to admit I do find it surprising that members of this forum who can tell you everything there is to know about film developers, alternative processes, darkroom technique etc. have never heard of some of the world's most well known photographers, many of whom who have created some of history's most iconic images. I guess I keep forgetting that Photrio is more about gear and photographic technique than the art of photography.

That's something an elitest would say.

 

[logan2z]

That's something an elitest would say.

I was waiting for that response

 

[warden]

I googled it, and recognized probably only two of the names. Erwitt and Bresson. But that still doesn' tell me much about what magnum does or what it's purpose is. From my brief search, it looks like just another club for the elitist's.

As someone who is clearly interested in reading and the creative process I think you will find a rewarding exercise with more than just a brief search. These are fine photographers that have stories to tell.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

I was waiting for that response

How can it be anything but? Your last statement insinuated that those of us who don't know these photographers aren't interested in photography, but only the gear and chemical equations. What you've essentially said is that if we don't pay attention to these people, we aren't worthy. Or maybe I'm the only one that perceived it that way.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

The process of becoming a full member to Magnum Photos take a minimum of four years. Photographers are only considered once a year, during Magnum’s Annual General Meeting in June, where one day is set aside for considering and voting on potential new members’ portfolios.

See... it is an elite popularity contest.

 

[logan2z]

What you've essentially said is that if we don't pay attention to these people, we aren't worthy.

I did not say that at all. What I said was I was surprised that these very famous photographers were not known to the members of a photography forum, and this thread reminded me that the focus of the forum was gear and photographic technique rather than photography as an art form. Do you disagree with that statement? I never said or meant to imply anything about 'worthiness'.

 

[logan2z]

See... it is an elite popularity contest.

That is a strange interpretation. Is every business elitist because they require potential employees to apply and go through a rigorous hiring process? Are they elitist because they require their employees to be highly skilled/qualified so that the company can be successful?

Magnum is a collective owned by its members. It is comprised primarily of documentary photographers who cover world events. They license their images for use in publications throughout the world. Members of the group will be assigned to war zones and placed in other difficult situations and be required to come back with pictures that tell the story of the event. So of course the collective will require a rigorous evaluation process before they accept a new member. I don't see why that should be surprising or deemed elitist.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

I did not say that at all. What I said was I was surprised that these very famous photographers were not known to the members of a photography forum, and this thread reminded me that the focus of the forum was gear and photographic technique rather than photography as an art form. Do you disagree with that statement? I never said or meant to imply anything about 'worthiness'.

Ummmmm.... I don't disagree with your statement, but I don't completely agree with it either. I think there is a lot of discussion about the art form, if there weren't, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I think this is probably an instance were we could all learn a little. People like yourself could probably learn a little about things that us more "provisional" people do and think, and we "provisionals" can probably stand to look around the more contemporary world a photography some.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

I don't see why that should be surprising or deemed elitist.

Agree to disagree?

 

[logan2z]

Agree to disagree?

Sure, why not

 

[Wayne]

As someone who is clearly interested in reading and the creative process I think you will find a rewarding exercise with more than just a brief search. These are fine photographers that have stories to tell.

That may be the problem. I'm not much for story telling photography. I look at images to look at images, not to try and divine the image-makers message or whether they even have one or to try and infuse it with one of my own. If my initial impression doesn't grab me for some reason, that's a valid reason to shrug and move on. Certainly there are good photographers who have been members and I wasn't suggesting otherwise.

 

[DonW]

Is the person who responds to an obvious troll just as bad as the troll? Asking for a friend.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Sure, why not

I thought of another thing since you asked why they weren't more known by people in the forum. You mentioned that they are primarily a bunch of documentary photographers placed in war torn countries and similar environments, which explains a lot about why *I've* never heard about them. I don't like that kind of photography. I guess I'm a snowflake in that sense. I don't derive any joy from looking at those kinds of photos, and I certainly don't want to have to think about the harsh things that are contained in their photos. As far as I want to know, my steaks come from the grocery store.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Is the person who responds to an obvious troll just as bad as the troll? Asking for a friend.

No but the person who tries to stir the pot probably is. Answering for a friend.

 

[logan2z]

Ummmmm.... I don't disagree with your statement, but I don't completely agree with it either. I think there is a lot of discussion about the art form, if there weren't, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I think this is probably an instance were we could all learn a little. People like yourself could probably learn a little about things that us more "provisional" people do and think, and we "provisionals" can probably stand to look around the more contemporary world a photography some.

I don't think there's been much discussion about art in this thread, it's mostly been about who has/hasn't heard of DAH or Magnum .

Like most people here, I like discussing gear and photographic technique. If I didn't I wouldn't hang out here as that's the focus of much of the forum. But my primary interest is making good photographs, so I spend much of my time studying the work of other photographers, reading their monographs, watching videos online etc. While I'm interested in finding the best film developer for Tri-X or the sharpest lens for my Nikon, that's of secondary importance to me.

But, point taken, we may have different approaches to photography and different areas of focus. That doesn't make one any more valid than another.

 

[Wallendo]

Magnum is a business at heart. And like many businesses, they will tolerate a lot of misbehavior as long as it is keep quiet and doesn't hurt the bottom line. They were willing to sell images of under-aged prostitutes (which were labelled as such) until the press got too bad

I personally don't follow "art" photographers. Primarily this is because a create images for my own enjoyment, I am more than happy to learn techniques from others, but don't have any great desire to emulate anyone else.

I understand, that for some people, recognition by a prestigious guild may be meaningful. For others it is not.

I read the entire article. Mr. Harvey doesn't come across well. Magnum actually comes across fairly badly also. I wonder how their "holistic investigation" will turn out.

 

[logan2z]

I thought of another thing since you asked why they weren't more known by people in the forum. You mentioned that they are primarily a bunch of documentary photographers placed in war torn countries and similar environments, which explains a lot about why *I've* never heard about them. I don't like that kind of photography. I guess I'm a snowflake in that sense. I don't derive any joy from looking at those kinds of photos, and I certainly don't want to have to think about the harsh things that are contained in their photos. As far as I want to know, my steaks come from the grocery store.

They are mostly documentary photographers but not all of them cover war/conflict. And many of them do personal work as well that can have a very different bent.

For example, here's a famous picture by Elliot Erwitt that he shot on assignment:

And here's one he shot while doing personal work:

Very different subject matter.

There's tons of great work on the Magnum site worth exploring. Check it out if you have the chance.

 

[logan2z]

I am more than happy to learn techniques from others, but don't have any great desire to emulate anyone else.

Me neither, but sometimes you need to study the work of others before you can find your own voice.