Darn Septic Tanks!

[Kevin Caulfield]

"Darn septic tanks" means something completely different here in Australia.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

I also used a darkroom with septic tank/leach field for years with no problems...

But, since you have decided to not dispose of your photochemistry into the septic system, then do everything you can to reduce volume as well as to dispose of what chemistry you must responsibly and economically.

I can imagine some combination of the points below will make your life easier and cost less than what you have arranged.

1. Use a replenished developer (e.g., Xtol for film) as much as you can. Replenish and reuse your selenium toner as well (I've been advocating that here for years). Use an acetic-acid stop that can be used to exhaustion.
2. Collect what is safe to dispose of in a municipal sewer system (developer and stop and de-silvered fix) and take it to a place with a sewer connection for disposal.
3. Find a photofinisher in your area who will take your fixer from you for silver recycling. Usually they will do this for free as long as they can keep the recovered silver. I've done this for years.
4. Look into a silver-recovery system if your volume is large enough.
5. Buy some 5-gallon containers for storage so you don't have to drink so much ginseng tea and to make storage easier.

I took fixer to the local hazmat collection point for disposal a couple of times. The people there were clueless about silver recovery and treated the used fix like toxic nerve gas; they marked it for incineration (even after I tried explaining to them about silver recovery...). I think that the energy spent handling and disposing of the fix that way is less eco-friendly than disposing of used fix in the municipal sewer... I wonder what they do with developer...

Best,

Doremus

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I had read this awhile ago when searching and while highly encouraging and logical, I still think the overall community needs make me want to take the disposal route. If Kodak or another official source gave it the green light, I might feel different but we have what we have on it to date, official and otherwise.

If down the road, some better option comes my way, I will certainly consider it. But for now, I have certainty and I am no longer stressed about it.

Good on you

 

[Neal]

Just a general note. I am on well and septic and while not perfect, only wash water goes down the drain. Because I am not a business, I can drop off used photochemicals at a site subsidized by the EPA without charge. I don't know what they do with it but they always make a point of thanking me for labeling the bottles.

 

[paul ron]

Just a general note. I am on well and septic and while not perfect, only wash water goes down the drain. Because I am not a business, I can drop off used photochemicals at a site subsidized by the EPA without charge. I don't know what they do with it but they always make a point of thanking me for labeling the bottles.

I once lived in a NJ house with septic and well water right on a lake. Yes Id be careful about dumping chemicals that may leach into the nearby streams n lakes as well as pollute my ground water. After doing some research with the municipal town hall, the advice I got was stop bath and wash waters were ok to put into the septic system. I also found out certain laundy soaps lawn products and fertilizers were restricted since I was living on a lake. I got alot of good information that opened my eyes.

The recommendations for disposal of the fixer and developer was bottle it up n bring it to the town hazardous waste facility... no charge. They did ask if I could let it evaporate as much as possible. Being I didn't have much on a monthly basis, the solutions did evaporate pretty fast, so it took a very long time to accumulate enough to bring a 5 gal bucket in. Winter was different. Id have to haul a 5 gal bucket every month.

I wonder if rodinol n cafinaol are hazardous waste?

 

[guangong]

Developing a couple rolls every week or so has never caused any problem with my septic system. Especially highly toxic chemicals used in reversal development of reversal movie film are disposed in a separate container. More damaging to the environment are detergents that increase the phosphorus content of run-off, thereby causing explosive growth of algie and weeds in ponds and lakes. Kino, in an earlier post listed some of the chemicals evacuated by the body. "Chemical" has become a buzzword for something bad, as if the chemical free food sold by health food stores are not themselves made up of chemicals. Much of this kind of thinking is the result of the decline of high school education. In the early 1950s students studied real chemistry with real lab work, sometimes with highly corrosive or toxic chemicals. We all seemed to have survived the experience.
Many of the warnings regarding septic tanks are referring to commercial enterprises.
Not to be overlooked in this discussion is the constant overreaching of government officials to extend their control by proclaiming unnecessary regulations.

 

[Luckless]

Do you have somewhere on the property that gets decent sun and is out of the way? Building a solar still for an evaporation chamber might be a decent option for the materials you're not keen on disposing locally. They can be set up to work very well in winter, where the trick is to get decent cold dry air flow over the evaporation pans, without letting the fluid get so cold as to freeze up on you. (However if you use a wedge shaped pan, it really isn't the end of the world if it does freeze.) Maybe check out some salt harvesting setups for ideas?

Depending on your total setup and volume, a buffer tank slow feed system may also be something worth considering. - Rather dumping all the waste fluid into the system at once at the end of a session, it is first placed in a temporary holding tank, where it is allowed to slowly trickle out into the primary system over time. This helps avoid overwhelming the tank and leach-field. Probably isn't needed unless you're doing some huge project volume, but it is an option worth keeping in mind.

 

[Ai Print]

I just want to say thanks for all the input. As I figure this out, I take everything into consideration.

In terms of evaporating, I might have a spot outside the garage once my camper's carport is built later this year. I am still hesitant though as the smells could be disruptive to the migratory path of the deer, elk and other wildlife that move through our property on a near daily basis.

The reduction in how much I bring to the disposal site will be a great step forward. I can see some months in doing heavy printing sessions of 16x20's and larger and having student workshops that will ratchet up the chemistry use to where I might very well need to evaporate it in order just to deal with it.

The deal with the gallon ice tea jugs is that gallon jugs are far easier for the folks on the receiving end to deal with rather than 2.5 or 5 gallon due to how they fit into the containers. They will also be easier for me to tote around as I get older.

I had to get something figured out as the plumber shows up tomorrow and I have no jobs staring me in the face for a solid month, so I can finally get my darkroom buildout done. As time goes on, I see what my actual volumes are and I network even more, I am hoping to be able to parter with someone to take the developer and stop bath to and use their drain.

But in the meantime, my wife and I like the idea of drinking more low calorie ginseng tea. We buy things like that anyway so now we have a direct recycled use for the containers and peace of mind in getting the chemistry off the land.

More to come, I'm sure....

 

[Kino]

If odor is a concern with evaporation, you might check out all the "odorless" chemicals at Freestyle.

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/search?q=odorless

 

[mgb74]

At the risk of repeating what's been said, a septic tank works by bacteria in the tank breaking down solids and "good" bacteria in the drainfield treating the liquid sewage (somewhat an oversimplification, but valid for this discussion).

So the worst thing you can do is to introduce anything that will kill off the "good" bacteria like bleach or (in this case) silver. Obviously, when you dump a bit of either into a 1500 gallon or larger tank, you have to factor in dilution. The second worst thing you can do is put very large volumes of water into the tank at one time. For example, running a print washer for hours. Especially if concurrent with other water use (washing machine, shower).

Unless other photo chemicals are broken down by bacteria (and I don't think they are), then you are effectively diluting them and dumping them onto the ground in your drainfield. Harmful? I don't know. But that's what you're doing.

When people say they've never had a problem, what they're really saying is that they didn't kill off the "good" bacteria so that the tank plugged up. They are not saying that the septic system worked as intended to fully treat the sewage - unless they tested their drainfield.

You're case is a bit different. With "heavy printing sessions of 16x20's and larger and having student workshops", you will likely have a lot of water and chemistry going through the septic. Or a lot to evaporate. And doing workshops might put you into a commercial category. You could mitigate the impact by:

• using a silver recovery system (or, as I do, just take your exhausted fixer to be treated)
• dumping your wash water outside the septic tank (as is often done with "grey water")
• pumping out your septic tank after a major workshop

I believe that ascorbic acid based developers might be less of an issue. Perhaps someone with knowledge could weigh in on this.

 

[nsurit]

I'm on septic and have a lab that takes my spent fixer. They get the silver and I get rid of the fixer. One of my children lives in The People's Republic of Boulder and we had given thought to moving there a little later in our retirement. One of my concerns would be could I ever be able to have a wet darkroom.

 

[Wallendo]

I'm on septic and have a lab that takes my spent fixer. They get the silver and I get rid of the fixer. One of my children lives in The People's Republic of Boulder and we had given thought to moving there a little later in our retirement. One of my concerns would be could I ever be able to have a wet darkroom.

Just tell them your darkroom is a hydroponic system for producing marijuana.

 

[Ai Print]

One of my children lives in The People's Republic of Boulder and we had given thought to moving there a little later in our retirement. One of my concerns would be could I ever be able to have a wet darkroom.

Living in Western Colorado my self and also enjoying the fact we are tough on enviro regs, I am very well versed in most counties views on darkroom effluent. If you are on a city sewer and also practice sound silver recovery efforts, I see no reason why not.

On another note, my plumbing is now in and that includes a couple of chemical evac lines that go up to a designated place in the garage.
Time to really get cranking!

 

[outwest]

Living in Colorado and drinking well water I would guess you already have significant amounts of silver, copper, lead, zinc, uranium and radon in your water. I grew up on a septic system and my dad used to throw in a brick of yeast every now and then FWIW.

 

[Ai Print]

Living in Colorado and drinking well water I would guess you already have significant amounts of silver, copper, lead, zinc, uranium and radon in your water. I grew up on a septic system and my dad used to throw in a brick of yeast every now and then FWIW.

I am not sure how much is significant, but you are welcome to tell me by reading our HOA's annual water quality report. I am by no means, an expert. That said, our water is pretty hard, lots of deposits on fixtures.

Water Report

 

[nsurit]

Oh, not only do I have a septic, but also run my house on rainwater that is collected from our roof and stored in two ten thousand gallon tanks. Best water you will ever get. Not sure if Colorado allows you to collect cloud juice. Water goes through two filters and a UV light sterilization before entering the house and another filter as it enters my darkroom.

 

[hacked - sepiareverb]

Sounds like you have a solution? I'd get a large polyethylene tank and drain into that and have someone come pick it up/pump it out twice a year.

 

[NedL]

....Not sure if Colorado allows you to collect cloud juice......

On-tap rainwater! That's awesome.

 

[pbromaghin]

Not sure if Colorado allows you to collect cloud juice.\

Nope. They only made residential rain barrels for lawn and garden legal last year. That happened because much of the water used in that manner will eventually run off.

 

[removed account4]

its a good thing you folks who like to use a sistern ( rain barrel ) don't have mosquito problems
around here in southern new england if you have standing water you are breeding mosquitos that
sometimes carry west nile or eastern equine encephalitis ...

 

[nsurit]

I collect it from my roof and only borrow it from the Universe until I use it. Seems to that is little different from turning on the tap with city water are pumping it from a well. it all eventually ends up in the same place as that of other sources of water. Oh, it is also wonderful water. No water spots on the shower, no calcium deposits in the dishwasher or dishes or crud floating in the bottom of your drinking glass. Try this, fill a glass with ice and then water. Let it completely melt and then take a look at what is floating at the bottom. when I do this there is nothing floating at the bottom. Crystal clear! I really enjoy not drinking what someone else dumped in the river upstream of me a few days ago. Maybe Houston is worst than other places, however that is what had me put this sytem in when I built a few years ago.

 

[paul ron]

Oh, not only do I have a septic, but also run my house on rainwater that is collected from our roof and stored in two ten thousand gallon tanks. Best water you will ever get. Not sure if Colorado allows you to collect cloud juice. Water goes through two filters and a UV light sterilization before entering the house and another filter as it enters my darkroom.

thats the way to go.... a closed system is the best. id love to do the same but in nyc i dont have the physical storage space for this.

 

[Ai Print]

Sounds like you have a solution? I'd get a large polyethylene tank and drain into that and have someone come pick it up/pump it out twice a year.

I looked into that and since I am in the mountains, all the companies who do it are 200 miles away, the transport fees alone made it almost double the cost of just bringing the stuff in my self.

 

[Sirius Glass]

its a good thing you folks who like to use a sistern ( rain barrel ) don't have mosquito problems
around here in southern new england if you have standing water you are breeding mosquitos that
sometimes carry west nile or eastern equine encephalitis ...

We have the same concerns in Southern California.

 

[Kino]

I have been doing some research and think this system might have potential, if somewhat scaled-up, for a darkroom.

http://biorealis.com/biofilter/drumbiofilter/

Worth a look...