dark swirls on prints out of developer

[thedeuk]

no it's fresh. and ilford fiber multi iv matte and gloss.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Actions:

1. Please just try the acid stop bath, regardless of what the fixer manufacturer says.

2. Submerge the print by sliding it, short end first, into the developer (emulsion side up).

3. Agitate continuously for at least the first 30 seconds, making sure the developer covers the entire print surface.

4. Let the paper stay in the developer for two minutes or more, agitating at least every 15-20 seconds.

 

[thedeuk]

i'm gonna start printing again in an hour with a stop bath. the first two prints i did with the stop have no marks. very frustrated that 7 16x20 final's i've done have these marks and are unusable. luckily i made multiple copies of each. i have at least one good one of each except for one image which i have to do over completely. i have a show coming up and have spent 9+ hours a day in the darkroom all week. ahhh! now i have to do 4 today!

 

[thedeuk]

out of curiosity thomas. why short end first?

 

[Bob Carnie]

may I add , drain print for 8 seconds no more can be less.

Actions:

1. Please just try the acid stop bath, regardless of what the fixer manufacturer says.

2. Submerge the print by sliding it, short end first, into the developer (emulsion side up).

3. Agitate continuously for at least the first 30 seconds, making sure the developer covers the entire print surface.

4. Let the paper stay in the developer for two minutes or more, agitating at least every 15-20 seconds.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

out of curiosity thomas. why short end first?

The grooves at the bottom of trays are usually going in the long dimension of the tray. If you slide in the short end first, you won't get caught in one of the grooves.
And keep the print emulsion side up in the developer. Air bubbles on the paper side don't matter, but if the emulsion is down and you get air bubbles, it can affect the outcome.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

may I add , drain print for 8 seconds no more can be less.

Good point. I forgot that one.

 

[thedeuk]

drain print meaning let it drip? i do it for at least 20.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

drain print meaning let it drip? i do it for at least 20.

You want to transfer the print from the developer to stop bath as quickly as possible, so just let the worst drip off, and slip it into the stop bath. Start agitating the stop bath as quickly as possible, and agitate continuously for about 30-40 seconds.
Drain/drip print for a few seconds and then transfer to fixer. Continue as usual.

 

[Bob Carnie]

May I also add that I use an indicator stop bath as I like Thomas like to get the print in the stop ASAP

You want to transfer the print from the developer to stop bath as quickly as possible, so just let the worst drip off, and slip it into the stop bath. Start agitating the stop bath as quickly as possible, and agitate continuously for about 30-40 seconds.
Drain/drip print for a few seconds and then transfer to fixer. Continue as usual.

 

[Bob-D659]

Using indicator stop bath makes it so you don't really have to worry about contaminating the fixer. Your fiber paper is soaked somewhat unevenly with developer, so it continues to work from the inside while the print is dripping and then soaking in your now alkaline water bath. Stop bath neutralizes the alkali developer, stopping it in its tracks so to speak. Now you can do a longer drip between the stop and fixer to reduce any carryover. When the colour of the stop bath changes, down the drain it goes as it can't neutralize developer any more. It's also very inexpensive compared to a sheet or two of 16x20 fiber paper.

 

[MattKing]

thanks for all your replys. they're not tong marks. definitely something to
do with chemicals because they look like water lines. I was using stop bath until lowell told me not too because the clayton odorless fix is a stop bath too. since I was using clayton stop bath I listened to him. plus he actually knows what's happening in the chemicals. I just follow directions. I'll try going back to a stop bath though.

If I was a cynic, I might think that recommending going direct from developer to fixer would be a great way to increase sales of fixer .

For 16x20 fibre prints one could proceed this way if:

1) drip/drain time was kept to a minimum; and
2) fixer was used essentially one shot.

This might make sense if, due to space constraints, one chose to use a single tray (filling and dumping the tray rather than moving the print), but if that was the case it would be necessary to use fixer one shot only.

 

[Bob-D659]

BTDT, Single tray processing works just fine with a stop bath between the dev and fixer, no need to waste the fix. If needed, you can use single tray method for dev, stop, fix, wash, bleach and toner, without ever removing the print from it.

 

[ic-racer]

I stopped draining my prints out of the developer tray. I just go right into the stop bath. Why? I do so few prints in a session, and always mix fresh chemicals for a session, that exhaustion of stop bath from excess developer is not an issue.

 

[thedeuk]

found it! there were two pinhole light leaks in my darkroom. one was in the exterior wall and one was a lighter spot on my safe light bulb. i think it must have been the one in the wall because only some of my prints had them, meaning they were probably the ones printed during the day. it must have been shining into my tray and hitting the fluids producing a slightly weird water-like solarization. i originally thought it was fixed after scrubbing my trays and going back to using the stop bath but then noticed another small dark line. so i searched the room for light leaks (again) and found a tiny hole that was only noticeable from a certain angle. i covered it up and 3 prints that came out perfect. i hope it's taken care of for good. we'll keep posted if something changes. thanks for all your help everyone! next i think it's time to find an enlarger which stays in focus a bit better.

 

[2F/2F]

Glad you found the problem.

A roll of rubylith is good to have on hand for the darkroom. I don't know what I'd do without it, aside from completely boarding up my basement. I hang flaps of it over the edges of my sliding door, and a sheet of it over my basement window. Instead of blocking the light, it turns it into a safelight, and it is easily reversible. I get mine at a screen printing shop.

 

[thedeuk]

great advice, thanks.

 

[trexx]

found it! there were two pinhole light leaks in my darkroom.

Elsewhere in this thread has suggested to put the print face up in the developer. I have never done that, never will . Just for the fear of light leaks*. I place the print face down agitate 30 second, turn up right for a couple of sec to see an image forming then face down, then stop ( running rater generally for me) then fixer face down for 45 sec , then examine and then fix #2 face down 45sec


* A lot of my work is in a community darkroom wit 20 other enlarger going on and off.

 

[thedeuk]

do you ever get dark marks from the silver on the bottom of the tray?

in my current setup i just have shelves that are barely big enough for the paper so i kind of have to pull each tray out and push the other in with my legs so i can keep two hands with tongs. it's tough to do flipping. but what your saying sounds like a good thing to do.

 

[ann]

you can get marks on the prints from the tray bottom , especially if it has ribs; usually from a lack of liquid depth, and/or pushing the paper down and letting it stay there for a period of time.

 

[Kirk Keyes]

You might want to clean your trays more often if you are getting silver in the bottom...