Cynicism in Continuing to Invest in Medium Format

Alan Gales · Jun 30, 2017

Sirius Glass said:
I guess that I could go out and by a Leica range finder but it still would not be a SLR.

Look at the good side my friend. Not buying cameras and lenses leaves you with more money for film and travel expenses. You can put that GAS in your car!

NJH · Jul 1, 2017

Paper, or for that matter almost any materials and time related to the final output. Its spending time in the darkroom that has changed my whole attitude to all that stuff, makes film developing seem cheap and camera GAS seem a daft waste of ones time.

removed account4 · Jul 1, 2017

Zyklus said:
Rollei is gone

why do you say rollei is gone?
they are anything but gone, and previously the price i quoted for a slr ( hy6 )
that was the body only if you want a lens with it that will be between 1.600 and 6.000$$

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the thing about buying a new ( / $$ ) camera is no matter what the salesman/woman suggested
no matter what the internet / people who make claims suggest ... it will not make you photograph any better
... gear ends up just being a distraction and a quest for a silver bullet, like a mirage,
no matter how prestigious the gear is, or how thoughtfully it was purchased to keep the camera making industry going
... even dropping 20.000 on a camera and 2 lenses might not do much to sustain a company.
or unless it is a single person making cameras him/herself like people making and selling
cajun accordions ... pay 2.000$ accordion it pretty much keeps the person making them making them
pay 20.000$ on a camera and 2 lenses, it doesn't translate to the same thing.

its the paper and film makers that need the support, there are enough used cameras to probably stretch from there to the moon.

Alan Gales · Jul 1, 2017

Ever read this book? It talks about technology moving so fast that the average person can not keep up.

future shock by alvin toffler

Twenty years from now digital cameras may be obsolete and photographers may be shooting something else. You can't worry about that stuff or it will drive you crazy. Enjoy life now and shoot all the film you can.

faberryman · Jul 1, 2017

Alan Gales said:
Ever read this book? It talks about technology moving so fast that the average person can not keep up.

future shock by alvin toffler

You are dating yourself (as am I). That book was written in 1970, well before the digital revolution. Some of it seems quaint now. Printing presses - who knew?

Alan Gales · Jul 1, 2017

faberryman said:
You are dating yourself (as am I). That book was written in 1970, well before the digital revolution. Some of it seems quaint now. Printing presses - who knew?

Yeah, I'm 55 and I read the book when I was young. The author's message is true though. Today technology is moving so fast that it is hard to keep up and it's only going to get worse.

My dad really liked movies and collected a bunch of VHS tapes to watch when he retired. When DVD's came out he started replacing his favorite VHS tapes. When I told him that the DVD's he was buying were obsolete because Blue Ray had just come out he started cussing.

Sirius Glass · Jul 1, 2017

Alan Gales said:
Ever read this book? It talks about technology moving so fast that the average person can not keep up.

future shock by alvin toffler

Twenty years from now digital cameras may be obsolete and photographers may be shooting something else. You can't worry about that stuff or it will drive you crazy. Enjoy life now and shoot all the film you can.

The digital camera has joined the obsolescence with film cameras. The iPhone and so-called smart phones have taken over. The iPhone 7 has more speed and capabilities than the computers onboard the Apollo capsule and the Lunar Lander and yet easily fits in your hand.

faberryman · Jul 1, 2017

Sirius Glass said:
The digital camera has joined the obsolescence with film cameras. The iPhone and so-called smart phones have taken over. The iPhone 7 has more speed and capabilities than the computers onboard the Apollo capsule and the Lunar Lander and yet easily fits in your hand.

Perhaps for images viewed on a phone or a laptop. But I have yet to see an iPhone image that looks good blown up to, say, 16x20, so I won't be ditching my cameras - film or digital - any time soon. It has taken the place of the point and shoot, but not for reasons of quality, but of convenience and sharing.

Sirius Glass · Jul 1, 2017

faberryman said:
Perhaps for images viewed on a phone or a laptop. But I have yet to see an iPhone image that looks good blown up to, say, 16x20, so I won't be ditching my cameras - film or digital - any time soon. It has taken the place of the point and shoot, but not for reasons of quality, but of convenience and sharing.

Maybe so, but the world has left us behind.

faberryman · Jul 1, 2017

Sirius Glass said:
Maybe so, but the world has left us behind.

I view the iPhone as today's Instamatic. Serious amateurs back in the day did not feel left behind by the Instamatic. I do not feel left behind by the iPhone. I've been at it for over 40 years, and my work has never been defined by the 3 1/2 x 5 print.

Alan W · Jul 1, 2017

All sorts of fictional stuff being discussed here,from Heaven to Moon Landings.Just buy the film you like,put it in the camera you like and take some shots.It's easy.

AgX · Jul 2, 2017

Jacob Weiss said:
Or still produce *multiple* slide film stocks? Rollei and Fuji

The "Rollei" you are referring to is in no way related to the camera manufacturer other than getting the Rollei brand licenced from a third party.
That does not take away that in the past they enriched the market by a number of films. However they will be running out of slide film with their supplier Agfa having cancelled production of that film.

Pioneer · Jul 2, 2017

Waiting for Ektachrome.

Craig75 · Jul 2, 2017

faberryman said:
I view the iPhone as today's Instamatic. Serious amateurs back in the day did not feel left behind by the Instamatic. I do not feel left behind by the iPhone. I've been at it for over 40 years, and my work has never been defined by the 3 1/2 x 5 print.

given that serious pros use i-phones for photobooks and hollywood films it's a tool way beyond what you think it is

Ai Print · Jul 3, 2017

I show loyalty to as many companies as I can until it makes more sense to use the best systems I can for my future even if they no longer support film. In the case of medium format, that is my Hasselblad V system. The reason for this is that besides it being about the best system I have used in my career in any format, there is still a fair amount of it out there so it is easy to stock spares for parts if the need arises down the road.

I have repair manuals, multiple light trap seal re-build kits for backs and plan to pickup a third 501CM in addition to a 500CM that will be for a special pin-aligned multiple exposure setup. I have also updated 5 of my 9 lenses from CF to CFi / CFe for increased longevity. I have one 24 exposure back and a dozen 12 backs with plans to get at least one more for parts.

Get your gear CLA’d, then take care of it by not beating on it but certainly using it and it should be fine. As for the loyalty thing, do what you can but don’t sell your photography experience short I say.

removed account4 · Jul 3, 2017

faberryman said:
But I have yet to see an iPhone image that looks good blown up to, say, 16x20

you haven't seen the work by stephen schuab i guess. he did a series of extra large iphone images a few years ago ...

Alan Gales · Jul 3, 2017

jnanian said:
you haven't seen the work by stephen schuab i guess. he did a series of extra large iphone imag

Is this the guy you are talking about, John? He has some great stuff. Some of it reminds me of some of your work!

http://www.stephenschaub.com/Artist.asp?ArtistID=42865&Akey=9LPV946V&ajx=1#!pf164771_im16

I love the first image, Figures on 44th street NYC. I don't know what camera he used for that image but one website said that he mostly shot film and then scanned his images. I'd be curious to see the iPhone images.

removed account4 · Jul 3, 2017

hi alan
yeah that's the guy ! and thanks!, now all i need is killer representation
he used to have the figital revolution blog which at one time featured a whole series
of beautiful cellphone images. i guess he rotated them "out" ..

Jacob Weiss · Jul 5, 2017

AgX said:
However they will be running out of slide film

CR200 may have been cut. Although, production is wrapping up on their new slide film set to be available this fall... so idk about that, they seem to be fighting pretty hard

Ai Print · Jul 7, 2017

I'm glad this thread was posted, I just snagged my third 501CM.

cooltouch · Jul 8, 2017

One of the things I like about medium format is the cameras tend to be a bit more on the robust side, while the older classics also tend to be rather simple in design and construction. At this time I own more medium format cameras than I ever have. My newest is either my Pentax 67 or my Bronica ETRSi. Even so, they're probably over 20 years old. My oldest is probably either my Agfa Isolette III or my Zeiss Super Ikonta BX. Either of these is probably close to as old as I am, and I'm in my 60s. But I have every confidence that all of these cameras will be around for as long as I am -- even the battery-dependent Bronica and Pentax, mostly because they are both in very nice condition and I don't abuse my gear.

As a hobbyist whose skills lie in outdoor photography but who also does occasional shoots for others -- mostly portraiture -- I feel very fortunate that the pro ranks have deserted medium format, causing a precipitous drop in the price of mf gear. I've been able to put together decent outfits for both my Bronica and Pentax that haven't cost as much as a good used car. Yet they do very well at the tasks I've set them to.

I'm gratified to see a renewed interest in film photography and I hope this trend continues. I hope an immediate result to this is that Fuji holds off discontinuing any more of its film products. I'm not like the OP in this respect since Fuji is the only maker of any sort of selection of slide film, an emulsion type I still prefer over all others. Ilford makes great stuff, but I've just never been into B&W exclusively. There are too many subjects out there that really require a good color emulsion. I look forward to Kodak's rollout of the new Ektachrome and I hope Kodak will continue to produce Portra for the foreseeable future. And I still hope against hope that Kodak may reintroduce Kodachrome one day -- or an archival equivalent -- available in 120 as well as 35mm.

JWMster · Jul 8, 2017

"Don't worry. Be happy."

Buying one unit of a manufacturer's output never saved a factory. If all the cameras you might ever purchase in a lifetime were lined up, they probably wouldn't cover the salary of one factory worker for close to a year much less keep a factory going. So if individually we're just not that important, buy what you like and let the collective group determine what succeeds. Some manufacturers will read the market well and have good sales. Others won't and will fail. Some - like Kodak will be unable to make up their minds and suffer. Buy film and let the sales of film lead the manufacturers. But above all, the highest principle of capitalism is being loyal to your own tastes and preferences and using your dollars to buy what you want. If you EVER buy a product for another reason, you are NOT sending good market data to the manufacturer. In fact, one of the favorite tricks in the food business is to buy competitors test products so that the competitor will think they've got a hit on their hands, scale up, and then discover that the misinformation has cost them a ton of money. This game isn't our responsibility and you can part with a lot of your own dough in a quixotic pursuit in this way. Believe me... been there, done that, and you may be rationalizing something you want to buy, but you're definitely NOT helping. Have fun!

mweintraub · Jul 10, 2017

MattKing said:
I would be reluctant to start a business right now that depends on using medium format film cameras, although I understand that the latest offerings from Hasselblad have once again added a film back option for one or more of their digital bodies.
But for personal photography, I am happy to rely on the cameras I have now, and the ones that I could obtain in the foreseeable future if my current cameras become un-repairable.
I'm hoping to manage at least another couple of decades of doing this. Why should I deny myself that much fun by quitting now?

I disagree about the business part, because if you have a good setup including backup bodies, you should be fine. Of course, if nothing is available to be fixed, there is the *gulp* option for using the D*****.

sepiareverb said:
To hear some tell us it is only about the backing paper.

Only when you shoot redscale 120.

JWMster · Jul 10, 2017

Though I'm NOT a pro photographer, on the basis of listening to a podcast interview with Brian Greenberg of Richard's Photo Lab, he suggests the business model using film still makes business sense: Dead Link Removed . Very interesting in terms of various film, digital, and video shooters.

k.hendrik · Jul 10, 2017

Why is there so much talk & so little images ?

Cynicism in Continuing to Invest in Medium Format

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