Cynicism in Continuing to Invest in Medium Format

ruilourosa · Jun 27, 2017

In the past Hasselblad and Rollei did not entered the programed obsolescence game... dumb people!!!! Now it´s too late...

Some late and highly praised cameras do not have the sort of hasselblad and rolleiflex durability in mind... a 500 series or a rolleiflex F will last, a mamiya 645 AF or a hasselblad H, will not... and some more... (when a mamiya RZ died on my hands i start thinking that spring is better than capacitor and engraved is preferable to LCD)

Jim Jones · Jun 27, 2017

It was indeed sad when a giant in cameras, film, and service like Kodak was scuttled by mere money managers. However, the ultimate goal for many of us is producing photographic images, not accumulating the tools for making them. At least a functional photographic outfit of one favored brand is far less expensive than a collection of classic automobiles, farm equipment, or art.

mhanc · Jun 27, 2017

enjoy life, don't worry about camera life...

it is always possible that at some point analogue photography may disappear. however, in the sage words of jim morrison: "i am gonna get my kicks now before the whole s..t house goes up in flames"

Ko.Fe. · Jun 27, 2017

Is it about recent hysteria started by newbie to film in Finland? No new films cameras hysteria? I have two MF cameras. Old folders. The only problem they will have is bellows. But those are manufactured new and also DIY.
35mm, my FED-2 was made in millions (around three millions) and it is metal and totally serviceable by DIY. Curtains and ribbons I have as well.

RattyMouse · Jun 27, 2017

Zyklus said:
We are becoming ever reliant on second hand gear that is rapidly increasing in price and will have a somewhat limited lifespan before service and parts are exhausted.

I watch used camera prices pretty regularly and see no sign of a rapid rise in pricing.

And people here shoot decades old cameras without an issue so I dont see what the problem is shooting older gear. Why worry so much?

Zyklus said:
My primary question after all this moaning is how do you go about shooting MF in this scenario?

I dont worry about it at all. I shoot MF with reckless happiness.

DWThomas · Jun 27, 2017

I have four medium format cameras (not counting my Kodak Brownie Six-20!), an SLR (for which I have two working bodies, three working backs and an assortment of lenses -- guess I should say two SLRs ), a TLR, and two fairly recently CLA'd folders. The newest of them is from the 1980s, the folders from the 1950s. Considering I turn 76 next week, I figure I have a lifetime supply. Although I do admit to a touch of GAS from time to time -- "just because." I suspect if there is a major resurgence in MF film shooting, some enterprising soul will step in, but that will likely have to wait until the supply of used gear thins out more.

Buy one and shoot it -- after all, one of us could be hit by a meteor tomorrow too!

Pioneer · Jun 27, 2017

I have no idea how long my medium format cameras will last.

What I do know is that using them is better for them in the long run than letting them sit.

So I use them every chance I get.

That includes older and newer models.

I shoot my Lomo LCA-120 side by side with my Rollei MX-EVS 75/3.5.

I am not so worried about the age or the build of either camera, just that the Lomo gives me a wider focal length while the Rollei gives me a normal focal length. To me they are complimentary 6x6 cameras.

NJH · Jun 27, 2017

The way I see it is high quality gear made by the likes of Hasselblad and Rolleiflex was designed for professional use running in to the thousands of rolls per year. As long as there is someone somewhere who can repair my equipment if it goes wrong I am not worried, it is highly unlikely I will ever wear out any of this gear from light amateur use.

redrockcoulee · Jun 27, 2017

Huss said:
Lomo makes the LCA-120. New.

Holga is back in production and the Diana F + is still being made along with loads off neat MF pinhole cameras. I use two large format cameras, a Chinese obeys till being made and an American one that has been out of business for almost a Century. I think Fuji was one of the last companies making a high end MF camera.

For less than the price of a new Hasselblad body I bought 3 lenses,5 backs, prism, a good body and still had money left for film. Hard for a company to compete with the used market.

greg zinselmeier · Jun 27, 2017

every day, more and more people stop shooting film, or shoot less film than before. while the same amount of used equipment is out there for purchase. In my lifetime i do not see a shortage of useable good working condition equipment, being depleted by a measurable amount. But im no fortune teller either

iandvaag · Jun 27, 2017

RattyMouse said:
I shoot MF with reckless happiness.

+1
Love this phrase.

jvo · Jun 27, 2017

Alan Gales said:
Buy yourself a Mamiya TLR. They are built like tanks and have a great reputation for reliability. They have no electronics to go bad. Wedding photographers used them for years. Cameras and lenses are both inexpensive. Get one in lightly used condition and have the camera and lenses CLA'd. They should last you for many years.

welcome to apug...

i too believe in loyalty... tho' "abandonment" is fact of life. i wish my buggy whip manufacturer was loyal! well my horse is happy!

so i'll enjoy my mamiya tlr's for as long as i've got, and as long as they've got! have fun!

tomfrh · Jun 27, 2017

greg zinselmeier said:
In my lifetime i do not see a shortage of useable good working condition equipment, being depleted by a measurable amount. But im no fortune teller either

Agree 100%.

jensenhallstrom · Jun 28, 2017

Rollei is not gone.

They are still making (in very few numbers) brand new Hy6 medium format cameras that shoot with film/digital backs under the company name DW-Photo GmbH. Also, they still occupy the same factory building in Braunschweig as they have for the last 67 years.

You can buy a Hy6 if you have 10,000 bucks lying around.

Two23 · Jun 28, 2017

1. None of that affects me at all. I just don't care. Cameras are the least important thing in photography and making interesting images.

2. My favorite cameras are those from the 1920s and 1930s. I love the historical aspect, the craftsmanship, the connection to people & photographers of the past. Some of my camera gear was made in the 1840s and 1850s. It still does what it was designed for 170 years ago and will be around long after I'm gone.

3. Just go out and shoot. Concentrate on the important thing--using the Light. Everything else is a distraction.

4. Enjoy life. Don't create unnecessary problems for yourself.

Kent in SD

ac12 · Jun 28, 2017

In the case of Hasselblad 500/501, the prices have dropped to "affordable," so I can finally afford to buy a Hasselblad, and use it. So I did.
- Great for me but kinda sad to say, my Hasselblad kit (500cm + 80CF + A12 back + WLF) costed me significantly less than my consumer level DSLR (Nikon D70).

So the camera is discontinued. As long as a camera tech can repair the cameras, that is good enough for me.
- If you have a Pontiac car, there is no Pontiac dealer service center to go back to for repair and parts. But there is enough interchangeability between models of other GM brands and aftermarket parts manufacturers, that your car repair guy can get most spare parts to keep that old Pontiac running.

In my case, I try to purchase multiple cameras; primary camera + spare(s). That way I am not 100% dependent on getting my only camera repaired, I just go use the spare/backup camera. If necessary, the camera tech can scavenge parts from one of the spare cameras. I can buy FOUR Nikon F2s and have money left over, for the price I paid for my F2 back in the 70s.

I've done the same for my slide projectors (what's that??). I purchased several, so that I have spares to fall back onto. Sad thing to say, but buying a spare projector is cheaper than sending the projector out to get repaired. Heck just the shipping from SF to LA and back, costs more than a spare projector. The only hassle is several slide projectors takes up a bit of storage space.

As for film
- Support the current manufacturers, so that they keep making the film you want.
- But don't stop using a film you like, just because the mfg stopped making other films. Product discontinuation is a business decision, usually based on lack of enough sales to financially justify continued production. See the item above.
- STOCK UP, so if/when production stops, you still have film. But this depends on having space in the fridge/freezer, or a spare fridge/freezer and the associated cost (fridge + power).

Bottom line for me is "to enjoy what you have, while you have it, and while you still can."
- I have already started putting together an Olympus OM kit, for when the Nikon F kit becomes too heavy for me to carry.
Don't artificially constrain yourself. If I did, I would not be enjoying the use of a Hasselblad.
Don't deny yourself the use of a good tool, because something in your head is telling you that you should not buy anything from that company.
- Yes, I understand boycotts and similar protests, but that is a different discussion.

BTW, this is not so different than my other hobby of fountain pens. Most of the fountain pens that I use have been long out of production, and some are older than me. And repairing these old pens usually means scavenging parts from other pens or getting them from the few parts makers, as the manufacturers in some cases are long out of business.

Ian Grant · Jun 28, 2017

MF - the miniature 120 format- is much more fun than 35mm, there won't be many new cameras while there's a huge glut on the second hand market.

Just buy something and have fun, I love my TLRs and also made my own 6x7 fueld camera last Autumn

Ian

jgoody · Jun 28, 2017

The beauty of the old TLR cameras is that there are no electronics and they're pretty simple and reliable.

tomfrh · Jun 28, 2017

jgoody said:
The beauty of the old TLR cameras is that there are no electronics and they're pretty simple and reliable.

Good point. Some of the oldies will last forever. If worst comes to worst my mother has a dusty old box brownie in the shed.

DWThomas · Jun 28, 2017

One can even hope that in the future, with 3-D printing and numerically controlled machining, it may be possible to reproduce critical parts for some of the more popular cameras at a reasonable enough cost to keep such cameras going for a long, long time.

Sirius Glass · Jun 28, 2017

jgoody said:
The beauty of the old TLR cameras is that there are no electronics and they're pretty simple and reliable.

Same for Hasselblads and slr Rolleis.

Down Under · Jun 28, 2017

A brief (yes, maybe!) ad to my earlier post (#17).

This week I have added a new MF camera to my collection - a Rolleiflex 3.5E2 TLR which I bought on the spot after it was offered to me at an excellent (= low) price by a Melbourne soon to be 'ex' film shooter who said he decided to dispose of his film gear and go the way of the dreaded 'D".

Oh, well. His loss, my gain. I ow have four Rolleis. And I intend to use them all. More film to be bought. From Asia this time.

All this to say, I agree with many posters in this thread, who have noted that there appears to be a seemingly endless supply of used workable MF gear on the market. Like Ralph Lambrecht (#25), I too intend to use my Rolleis as long as I can still carry and hold them (at almost 70 I am planning - and hoping - to still have a few good years left for my photography, touch wood) and also keep my darkroom going, to reduce my processing costs.

A more interesting project for me will be to sort out, quality check and archive my huge collection of negatives and slides dating to the early 1960s. A few of my collections will be donated to public organisations (municipal councils, local and provincial/state museums, university libraries etc) for historical purposes, if they are willing to accept them. Some do, others don't. I figure I have about five years of fairly consistent film scanning ahead of me,which should do wonders to keep dementia at bay - that or push me into age-related insanity, whichever comes first!

As a last note, on my photo shoots both here (Australia) and in Southeast Asia, I am now seeing more photographers with film cameras than I have in the past ten years, which is a positive and encouraging sign.

As for film, while 120 may well become a niche product, I reckon someone will manufacture it as long as there are buyers for it. Lucky is apparently producing film again, which is a good sign, if they can bring their quality control standards up to par.

Better we concentrate less on gloom-and-doom scenarios and just enjoy our cameras in the time they (and we) have left.

David A. Goldfarb · Jun 29, 2017

Plenty of outstanding gear out there at a fraction of its original price. Much of it is long lasting. I'm not worried.

AgX · Jun 29, 2017

Zyklus said:
Rollei is gone

Not quite. It's the the never ending story of Rollei. Though on lowest level from all restarts so far...

See this thread:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

and read posts from #67 on.

Doc W · Jun 29, 2017

Two23 said:
1. None of that affects me at all. I just don't care. Cameras are the least important thing in photography and making interesting images.

That sums it up for me. I use cameras to make photographic images. I don't collect cameras and I really don't excited about one versus the other. Sure, some are better than others in various ways, but the camera is just the tool, not the reason for photography. Right now, I shoot MF and LF (4x5, 5x7, 8x10). I expect that within a few years I will probably be using only the 8x10 with one lens. And if film disappears, I will go to wet plate.

Cynicism in Continuing to Invest in Medium Format

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