Cutting mattes

[Vaughn]

What is also nice is the pencil-lead scribe that fits some Logan cutters. Set the border width on the scribe and run the cutter along side the mat board and it draws the line for you. No muss, no fuss.

Vaughn

 

[dwdmguy]

I disagree with this strongly as well.
Almost every schools darkroom I've been in has several of these and they get used, daily, believe me.
They are tough and get the job done.

Invest the money now and get a good Logan and the only thing you'll ever need going forward is razors.

If you have no need for it anymore, put it on craigslist. It'll go pretty fast.

I disagree, although I might have a different opinion if I were cutting mats every day in large quantities. For those who don't I think they're quite serviceable.

The real joy of cutting one's own mats (or, if you've just got too much money to spend, having them cut for you) is that you are free to make the photograph exactly the size (read "crop") that you want it to be rather than printing to conform to a pre-cut size. I've found it a very liberating experience, and not particularly difficult to learn and do well if you practice.

I suppose the era of wholesale dumping of gear and equipment specific to analog photography is over, but there are still bargains to be had on dry mount presses I would think. They are absolutely worth it as a way to complete the presentation process. Give it a go...you'll be happy you did.
(None of the above is rocket science...don't be timid on that score...it just aint that difficult to do well.)

BTW, do not skip DW Thomas's link to the optical print centering site. It's the only tool I use to decide exactly what I will do with my print/overmat measurements.

 

[eddie]

I think it depends on how many mats you need to cut. I cut a lot, so the Fletcher 2000, with the squaring arm was the right decision. I buy 32x40 inch boards, trim them to size, and use the production stops, which really speeds up the cutting process. The windows which are removed are trimmed to a smaller size, which gives me more use out of the board.

 

[BetterSense]

The visual problem, I think, would be that as the print develops a topography, as it will unless it's drymounted, the shadow of the matte on the print will look irregular and no doubt very distracting. I imagine there could be a problem if you really wedged your print tight into the frame so that the matte was pressed so tightly against the print that the open area had nowhere to go when it expands; then it might "puff" out. I've never had a problem with it.

The particular print in question, and all prints I make right now, are RC prints, so this shouldn't be a problem I think. I understand that prevailing opinion is that fiber base paper is the way, the truth, and the light, but I have no plans to start working with it any time soon.

I'm still leaning toward buying a Dexter-type hand-cutter right now, while I keep my eye out for a good, better-than-the-cheap-24"-model matte cutter. I don't have time to shop around for a used one and I really only have one matte to cut right now. Plus a hand cutter won't take up any more precious apartment space.

 

[dwdmguy]

Make that 45%
http://www.aaasouth.com/newsletter/1009/michael_45Offer.pdf

 

[Shadow Images]

I'll agree to disagree. Put it like this, Eat at Ruth's Chris and you'll never go to another Sizzler. There are frame shops dropping like flies right now and lot of equipment out there.

 

[Vaughn]

Hey, SI -- someday I would love to own and use a mat cutter on the scale of quality as a Fletcher. My mats would not be any better, but probably be easier. How are they on 8-ply? That is mostly what I cut for myself these days.

I actually have worn out a Logan mat cutter. It took a couple thousand or so mats (who is counting?) as I have cut mats for other photographers over the years...10 here, 20 there, a couple here. But it finally got sloppy. But I still have it since I use the scribe on it. On a cost per mat basis, I think I got my $40 out of it. Mat cutting is not fun, but even so, I like taking my work from the beginning to the end...or at least to the extent I can. I have a scar on my wrist that looks like a punked-out seagull that is a measure of my woodworking skills, so I do not make my own wood frames.

Vaughn

 

[Larry Bullis]

The guy who showed me how to cut mattes was a printmaker who had been curator of prints at the San Francisco Legion of Honor. He had cut thousands. He didn't need no stinkin' matte cutter! For a demonstration, he took two 32x40 sheets of museum board and with a hand held matte knife - you know, the ones that screw together with a stash of blades inside the handle like carpenters and everyone else uses, and cut a very nearly perfect circle in the top one, using the other one as backing. He was a bit out of practice, so the right and left semicircular cuts didn't quite meet -- about 1/8" off. It was amazing. Dennis Beale.

I need a stinkin' matte cutter, myself.

One thing I learned from him that is really useful. Get yourself a fine sharpening stone and use it - preferrably before every cut.

 

[greybeard]

Unfortunately I know of no similar trick for laying out the overmatte. Wish I did!

Okay, I'm glad you asked:

After the print is mounted, drop the overmat sheet onto it and align the top and right edges. Cut off just the tiniest tip of the upper right corner, which will give you an orientation reference. Now shift the mat down until its top edge is just below the top edge of the print (keeping the sides which meet at the clipped corner aligned) and make pencil tick marks at the left and right edges of the print.

Next, shift the print to the left, keeping the top edges of the mat and print aligned, and make the corresponding tick marks. Rotate the assembly and repeat, keeping whichever edge joins the clipped corner aligned each time, until you have transferred the locations of all four corners of the print to the edges of the mat.

Now, using an accurate ruler (divisions to 1/16" or 1 mm, or better if possible) make offset marks that will give the desired window around the print. The actual offset amount will depend slightly on how the knife is set into the mat cutter, and needs to be adjusted with respect to the size of the print. (In my case, 1/4" top and sides and 3/8 bottom (to allow space for a signature on the print mount) looks right for an 8x10 in an 11x14 frame.) It is easy to get into the rhythm and make all four offsets the same, so double-check before proceeding...

Connect the offset marks with very light, very fine pencil marks at each corner of the future opening; it is all right if they cross and overlap slightly (because you can erase them later) but you will need the intersection point to tell you when to stop with the mat cutter. It is surprisingly easy to make the marks intersect just at the corner, working only by eye, but it is not absolutely necessary if you have taken care to keep them erasable.

Finally, with the mat on a non-slip cutting board, put the point of the mat cutter blade through right at one corner (push at the correct angle if you are making the traditional beveled opening), bring a straightedge up to the cutter, and align the straightedge so that it is a precisely equal distance from the offset marks at the top and bottom. Make the cut, rotate the mat, and repeat three times, and you are done.

Now, wasn't that simple?

Using the same pair of edges for reference each time will ensure that any angular errors in the print location (from trimming or slippage while mounting, or lack of accuracy in the board edges) are precisely transferred to the location marks. A tiny error (say, 1/16 inch in 8 inches) is not so noticeable against the 1-1/2 or 2 inches between the image and frame, but really stands out in the quarter inch gap between the print edge and the edge of the mat opening. When hinging the mat to the mounting board, align the reference edges, and then split any residual errors (if you can even see them) when putting the assembly into the frame; the tick marks will disappear behind the frame rebate.

 

[jovo]

BTW:

matte: "having a dull or lusterless surface: matte paint; a matte complexion; a photograph with a matte finish." adjective


mat:"a piece of cardboard or other material placed over or under a drawing, painting, photograph, etc., to serve as a frame or provide a border between the picture and the frame." noun

Source: dictionary.com

 

[Shadow Images]

Hey, SI -- someday I would love to own and use a mat cutter on the scale of quality as a Fletcher. My mats would not be any better, but probably be easier. How are they on 8-ply? That is mostly what I cut for myself these days.

Vaughn

8 ply always take patience but is easier with a better mat cutter. Way back in the day I used to cut all mats by hand and wouldn't to go back to it. I still do cut specialty mats by hand that most used CMC's for. Mat cutting is becoming a lost art.

 

[Larry Bullis]

"Unfortunately I know of no similar trick for laying out the overmatte. Wish I did!"

Okay, I'm glad you asked:

....

Now, wasn't that simple?

That's great. Thanks.

For my cutter, which is designed for cutting from the back of the board, I can add the width of the bevel to each side of the window. Should work great.

 

[BetterSense]

BTW:

matte: "having a dull or lusterless surface: matte paint; a matte complexion; a photograph with a matte finish." adjective


mat:"a piece of cardboard or other material placed over or under a drawing, painting, photograph, etc., to serve as a frame or provide a border between the picture and the frame." noun

Source: dictionary.com

However, remember that the pieces of card used to mask motion picture frames are called mattes, analog special effects techniques use moving/traveling mattes and shooting with no matte at all is known as open matte, and one can also use a matte painting.

I'm sure this has something to do with the usage of matte to refer to that masky thing that is used to cover photographic images.

 

[jovo]

And maybe a mocha latte is a matte as well.

 

[MattKing]

BTW:

matte: "having a dull or lusterless surface: matte paint; a matte complexion; a photograph with a matte finish." adjective


mat:"a piece of cardboard or other material placed over or under a drawing, painting, photograph, etc., to serve as a frame or provide a border between the picture and the frame." noun

Source: dictionary.com

Neither of which are to be confused with Matt

Matt

 

[Larry Bullis]

However, remember that the pieces of card used to mask motion picture frames are called mattes, analog special effects techniques use moving/traveling mattes and shooting with no matte at all is known as open matte, and one can also use a matte painting.

I'm sure this has something to do with the usage of matte to refer to that masky thing that is used to cover photographic images.

Not worth spending a lot of time on this, really, but just out of curiosity, I did anyway. I checked the Oxford Unabridged. My poet wife has a special computer dedicated to running it.

"Mat" is differentiated sharply from "matte". Meanings for "matte" include the specific cinematic term, as well as an intermediate product in the processing of metal bearing ore, and two other obsolete uses, one being a variant of "mate". For "mat", there is a maze of 14 meanings from "matador" to "mattock" and as a verb, what one does with the mattock; one mats with a mattock. Try that on your prints.

The mounting of a photograph is definitely, acc. the OED, a "mat". But then, so is that thing you wipe your feet on before you come in the door. It is not a "door matte", mate.

I found this surprising, because I always thought it was "matte". I wonder if the usage of "matte" originated as an affectation like "giclee" for "ink squirt picture". You know, things have a lot more importance in some circles when they appear to have originated in French.

 

[greybeard]

You know, things have a lot more importance in some circles when they appear to have originated in French.

C'est vrais, Monsieur, absolument.

(And by the way, that masky thing that would be used to cover photographic images is probably frisket.... )

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Let's end the confusion. Most of the rest of the world uses: 'passepartout' (pas pahr too or phonetically pas-pər-ˈtü )

French, I know...

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

While I don't know if you can still get these kinds of deals on ebay, I found my Logan 650 for about half retail, new in box there a few years ago. It was absolutely worth the $350 or so I spent for it, because in a single show (I had 14 photos, 15x15 or 12x18 in 20x24 frames), it paid for itself in the savings on having the frames done professionally. It still does a very good job on 4-ply mat board, but it never quite gives me a truly straight cut on 8-ply (it usually wobbles somewhere between the start and the end of the cut, so the edges aren't quite square. I've never figured out if this is a technique problem on my part or if it is an alignment issue on the cutter. If someone out there has wisdom to impart in this regard, I'm all ears!). Overall I've been happy with it, with that noted issue with cutting 8-ply board (which I really like, especially for mounting my platinum/palladium and other alt-process prints). If you do get one, I highly recommend getting the extension baseboard because you'll quickly find yourself needing to cut a bigger than 4" border, especially when matting smaller prints, and the extension baseboard will make it easy to measure those borders repeatedly.

 

[Vaughn]

FC -- a couple things. As one plunges the blade into the board, especially if one does it all at once, the blade can sometimes get deflected (there is a lot of blade). Then as you start moving the cutter, the blade straightens out, giving one those not quite square corners. One way to prevent this is to start the cut early and as one gets to the starting point, plunge the blade the rest of the way through the board.

With 8-ply I also make several cuts along the entire line before making the last and final cut all of the way through the board. Both these ideas might help you with 8-ply.

A little more time consuming, but with the cost of a 16x20 8-ply board, it is worth taking the time!

Vaughn

 

[greybeard]

It still does a very good job on 4-ply mat board, but it never quite gives me a truly straight cut on 8-ply (it usually wobbles somewhere between the start and the end of the cut, so the edges aren't quite square.

My Logan was bought (new-in-box condition) specifically as a way of breaking down 32x40 board stock. I was surprised to find that while the squaring guide and blade track seem to be accurate enough, the edges of the mat board are usually not perfectly straight. I attribute this to a combination of asymmetrical shrinkage or expansion since it was cut for packaging, possibly aggravated by storage on edge in a room with a concrete slab floor and no forced-air heating or cooling. It sounds like your 8-ply cuts are suffering from a lack of rigidity in the machine, but it is also possible that a curved edge is allowing the board to "rock" against the guide, which could give out-of-square corners, curved edges, or both.

One way to check this is to make a perfectly straight edge using a sharp knife, a good straightedge, and repeated light cuts (a fine pencil line will let you detect any slippage of the straightedge). Putting this edge against the mat cutter's rail, make a careful cut. Then flip the offcut upside down, put the two just-cut edges together, and see if they match. Any error will be doubled, so it should be pretty easy to figure out what is going wrong.