Ctein goes digital!

apconan · Feb 26, 2010

hey guys look at me i love analog so much i will say 'who cares'

2F/2F · Feb 26, 2010

Ctein is obviously a fool, so, yes: Who cares?

Steve Smith · Feb 26, 2010

David A. Goldfarb said:
I don't know whether he is making digital separations from digital originals, but he hasn't mentioned it.

He did say that he makes dye transfer prints from digital in the Online Photographer post.

Steve.

Tom Kershaw · Feb 26, 2010

2F/2F said:
Ctein is obviously a fool, so, yes: Who cares?

I have two of Ctein's dye transfer prints and they are certainly very impressive that would cause me to examine my printing methods if I started to do serious colour photography / printmaking.

Not wanting to speak for Ctein but I get the impression he is mostly concerned with printmaking so may have different concerns to some of us.

Tom

nolanr66 · Feb 26, 2010

Ctein should just do what he thinks he needs to. Photography has many faces and I figure he is the best person to decide how he wants to go about it.

BetterSense · Feb 28, 2010

Probably for the same reason he feels the need to tell everyone constantly that he was trained as a physicist, err should I say, has a bachelor's degree in physics.

I noticed this as well, and while I don't mean to bash Ctein, a bachelor's degree in physics is absolute kid's play. I know because I got one, and somehow manage to not go around reminding people that I'm "trained in physics". I'm looking at going back to grad school to work towards a phD in physics and the coursework at that level is worth calling "physics". Ouch!

Dan Henderson · Feb 28, 2010

I think this proves that you should never trust a person with only one name. And one that is easily mispronounced at that.

Seriously, I don't see the catastrophe here. If he were advocating that others desert analog photography, and was influential enough to take many analog photographers with him, thereby decreasing the demand for traditional materials, I would see a reason to worry. I have heard no claims that either of those things are happening.

An artist made a choice to adopt another method for, I presume, the sake of his art. I stay with analog for the sake of mine.

df cardwell · Feb 28, 2010

Sigh.

As long as we are ANTI DIGITAL (and this thread demonstrates that pretty well)
we lack the energy and attention to become PRO FILM.

We cannot hate and love at the same time.

Although HATE is surely easier, and offers more immediate gratification,
HATE cannot fuel a healthy FILM community.

We are, I guess, doomed.

.

Sirius Glass · Feb 28, 2010

df cardwell said:
Sigh.

As long as we are ANTI DIGITAL (and this thread demonstrates that pretty well)
we lack the energy and attention to become PRO FILM.

We cannot hate and love at the same time.

Although HATE is surely easier, and offers more immediate gratification,
HATE cannot fuel a healthy FILM community.

We are, I guess, doomed.

.

Please speak for yourself, please.

I can do both at the same time. I can also walk and chew gum simultaneously, together, at once, and at the same time!

Not only that, unlike Ctein, I use my undergraduate degree. But I agree lets get back to analog(ue) photography and place Ctein in the Deleted thread.

Get revenge by doing analog(ue) photography well and enjoying it.

Steve

Steve

jglass · Feb 28, 2010

Agreed: 1) We can do digital too, if we feel like it. 2) This thread is over. 3) Who's the idiot who started it? 4) Me.

Sirius Glass · Feb 28, 2010

jglass said:
Agreed: 1) We can do digital too, if we feel like it. 2) This thread is over. 3) Who's the idiot who started it? 4) Me.

Are you deleting the thread???

Ian Grant · Feb 28, 2010

jglass said:
Agreed: 1) We can do digital too, if we feel like it. 2) This thread is over. 3) Who's the idiot who started it? 4) Me.

Unfortunate when you start a thread you can't stop it's course once the ball's rolling

But it does raise some issues which are alluded to here:

df cardwell said:
Sigh.
As long as we are ANTI DIGITAL (and this thread demonstrates that pretty well)
we lack the energy and attention to become PRO FILM.

We cannot hate and love at the same time.

Although HATE is surely easier, and offers more immediate gratification,
HATE cannot fuel a healthy FILM community.

We are, I guess, doomed..

If you happen to have mastered both Analog and Digital it puts you in a far stronger position to argue the pros & cons of your choice to shoot film without being anti-digital on principle.

Some of us have often have no choice with commercial work, the client wants the images in a digital format, and in most cases that means a 100% digital work-flow, mainly because of economics and time constraints, you ahve to compete against others.

If we want film & papers to remain we have to win over people who may have only ever shot digital and that has to be on the merits and benefits of Analog processes and not a hatred of Digital.

Ian

Wayne · Feb 28, 2010

df cardwell said:
Sigh.

As long as we are ANTI DIGITAL (and this thread demonstrates that pretty well)
we lack the energy and attention to become PRO FILM.

We cannot hate and love at the same time.

Although HATE is surely easier, and offers more immediate gratification,
HATE cannot fuel a healthy FILM community.

We are, I guess, doomed.

.

Congratulations, Ctein! Go forth now and spread the D, and may the D be with you! I am so happy for you! This is a proud happy day for everyone! Everything is good! Happy happy!

Love,

Wayne

Ken N · Feb 28, 2010

What bothers me are those who are swayed by Ctein's decision even though his reasonings are not their reasonings.

Niall Bell · Mar 1, 2010

Can I just add that having read this thread, I'm utterly amazed at the invective that our, in particular, American cousins are prepared to express and with such emotion. I wonder if they would express these sentiments directly to Mr Ctein?

Do we not all express ourselves in our unique way through photography- why then is there the need to disparage someone else's work and him personally?

In fact many of the threads in this forum contain comments that are very direct to the point of being unhelpful and vaguely insulting or dismissive.

Perhaps it's the American direct way of speaking, but I find it very offputting.

No doubt there will be a barrage of ripostes probably in capital letters.

Niall

removed account4 · Mar 1, 2010

threads like this are best left on "ignore" ...

clayne · Mar 1, 2010

wiltw said:
Why are we unable to separate the concept of capture, from the concept of output?! What Ctein now chooses to use to capture his images remains independent of his darkroom mastery of a classic print making process. Yes, it does raise a question about how he obtains a color negative image with which to make his exceptional dye transfer prints!

Because they're freakin' related, sheesh. Why are people so hell-bent on pointing out the trivial and cliched viewpoint that the medium has nothing to do with anything in the long run when it sure as heck does - both in method and the nature of how it records light (digital and analog are *not* the same and this has zero to do with resolution).

Look at all of the "photography" around you today. If you see nothing wrong - then perhaps you're part of the problem? Seriously, go back in publicly available archives (some of which are available online) and look at what high-rated photographers were doing 30 years ago. The standard pap we see today is nothing but a distraction to the eyes and seriously empty in direction. I'm not saying that everything today sucks, but I'm definitely saying there is a greater sea of crap to wade through and less truly great photographers actually doing something. Mostly everything is about self these days.

Ken N · Mar 1, 2010

clayne said:
Because they're freakin' related, sheesh. Why are people so hell-bent on pointing out the trivial and cliched viewpoint that the medium has nothing to do with anything in the long run when it sure as heck does - both in method and the nature of how it records light (digital and analog are *not* the same and this has zero to do with resolution).

And the missing point here is the Ctein is changing his output medium too. The dye-transfer stuff is coming to an end for him too. It's not just the capture side that is changing, but the output side too. He's still heavily into dye-transfer, but not for his new stuff.

The problem is that he's known for being a master at one particular thing. Unfortunately, that has typecasted him. I can't blame him for wanting to move onto something else. The guy is more technician than artist, but unfortunately after all these years he's been doing essentially "assembly-line work". Most of us change jobs or get promoted or whatever every few years and get a new set of challenges to deal with. I can see where he's just ready for a new challenge.

The great thing that is happening, though, is for every Ctein leaving "analog" we're gaining at least one new young person moving into analog and creating, defining and progressing the craft. These really are exciting times and I'm absolutely thrilled with the 20-somethings that are showing up here. Just because Ctein is leaving analog isn't the end of the world because the new talent coming in is potentially even better/smarter/etc. The problem is that once a craft has been "perfected" as Ctein had done, it no longer progresses.

It usually takes the exit of the "old" to create the vacuum which the "new" fills. After all, B&W photography didn't die when Ansel Adams and Weston passed.

Ken

frotog · Mar 1, 2010

df cardwell said:
Sigh.

As long as we are ANTI DIGITAL (and this thread demonstrates that pretty well)
we lack the energy and attention to become PRO FILM.

We cannot hate and love at the same time.

Although HATE is surely easier, and offers more immediate gratification,
HATE cannot fuel a healthy FILM community.

We are, I guess, doomed.

.

LMFAO!

sanking · Mar 1, 2010

Ken N said:
The great thing that is happening, though, is for every Ctein leaving "analog" we're gaining at least one new young person moving into analog and creating, defining and progressing the craft.

Ken

What is the basis for the statement that for every person leaving analog there is at least one new person moving into it? I have not observed anything like that in the world where I live

Sandy King

Ian Grant · Mar 1, 2010

sanking said:
What is the basis for the statement that for every person leaving analog there is at least one new person moving into it? I have not observed anything like that in the world where I live

Sandy King

Sandy, from what I was told in November (by a couple of UK photo stores) that statement is partially true, but it's experience people leaving who spent money on materials and the new users are not yet spending so much.

It's an uphill struggle when the vast mass of photo magazines have turned their backs on film/analog and re-invented themselves as digital magazines.

Then there's the attitude of camera/photo stores, of the 8+ in the town I live in only one knows what 120 is, and he thought it had long gone.

Many of our problems are down to the collective attitudes of the film manufacturers not promoting a broader approach to re-energising the marketing of film, targeting the magazines and retailers, re-educating them that film is still around and alive and thriving.

Ian

Thomas Bertilsson · Mar 1, 2010

Do what you want, like, and get the most satisfaction from.

Don't worry what Ctein and everybody else thinks and does, because it is of no direct consequence to your work.

Be yourself.

Ken N · Mar 1, 2010

sanking said:
What is the basis for the statement that for every person leaving analog there is at least one new person moving into it? I have not observed anything like that in the world where I live

Sandy King

Note the specific to my statement. For every "Ctein" leaving, meaning expert, there is new replacement talent coming in.

It really is happening. I'm watching a couple of people enter the photographic field who are bringing an entirely fresh and new approach to it. Both of them started out with digital cameras, but now are mostly film. Each is bringing a fresh approach based on their own unique training, background and discipline. In twenty years, my guess is that both of them will be considered experts in the field. It doesn't take much--just publish a technical book and put on some workshops...

Bruce Watson · Mar 1, 2010

jglass said:
Um. I think the point is that many people care what he thinks. Many.

Yup. Takes many sheep to make a flock.

Seriously, what the "experts" think is lost on me. I make my decisions after careful analysis and assessment of my photographic needs. Which keeps pointing me back to film. So I keep using film. Whether anyone else does or not. What others do or don't do has no effect on nor meaning for me.

Andrew O'Neill · Mar 1, 2010

It doesn't bother me. It's one person. I own a few of his dye transfers and I know how laborious it is. Going digital will make it a tad easier for this process. If going to digital means that it'll keep dye transfer alive, then fine with me.

Ctein goes digital!

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