Crown Graphic Special

[campy51]

I just ordered this camera with the Xenotar 135mm lens and want to use it hand held out doors in bright light for candid shots. Any tips on learning how to estimate my distance to subject to fall into the depth of field for sharp photos? I will also try to use the rangefinder but fear I will be too slow to focus in time.

 

[BobD]

Use hyperfocal distance then no focusing necessary.

 

[jim10219]

Two tricks to try. The first is hyperfocal distance. Figure out how to set the hyperfocal distance, and it'll give you a much wider field of view to work with.

Second, use known frame of reference points for distance. Rather than guessing distance in feet, yards, meters, or whatever, guess distance in objects you're familiar with. Is the subject about 3 basketball goals away? Well a basketball goal is 10 feet, so that makes it 30 feet away. You can use your car, arms length, shoes, football fields, whatever object you're familiar with enough to imagine it's size. Then measure that object (if you don't already know the length), and use those objects to estimate distances.

 

[Bob S]

Two tricks to try. The first is hyperfocal distance. Figure out how to set the hyperfocal distance, and it'll give you a much wider field of view to work with.

Second, use known frame of reference points for distance. Rather than guessing distance in feet, yards, meters, or whatever, guess distance in objects you're familiar with. Is the subject about 3 basketball goals away? Well a basketball goal is 10 feet, so that makes it 30 feet away. You can use your car, arms length, shoes, football fields, whatever object you're familiar with enough to imagine it's size. Then measure that object (if you don't already know the length), and use those objects to estimate distances.

Depth of field, not field of view.

 

[cjbecker]

I find using the rangefinder is pretty quick and easy, especially if you use the rangefinder to zone focus. Then just wait for the subject to enter the zone.

 

[campy51]

What if the rangefinder was slightly off and I focus until the image in the rangefinder is almost dead on, would that be doing the same thing as long as the aperture was at f11-f16?

 

[cjbecker]

What if the rangefinder was slightly off and I focus until the image in the rangefinder is almost dead on, would that be doing the same thing as long as the aperture was at f11-f16?

I would the camera on a tripod and focus with the rangefinder, then check on the ground glass and see if or how much the rangefinder is off. Then you can see if stopping down will help.

 

[shutterfinger]

Rangefinders are set for infinity with the lens at infinity on the rails. If the rangefinder is calibrated for a 135mm lens that is optically 136.5mm and its replaced with a 135mm labeled lens that is optically 134mm then the focus will be in error at 8 to 10 feet and closer with the lens wide open.

The greater the difference between calibrated focal length and optical focal length of the lens the greater the error at further distances (25 to 50 feet), the closer the calibrated focal length and optical focal length of the lens the closer the focus distance error ( 3 to 8 feet).

 

[Luckless]

If you're aiming to use a rangefinder for wide open and razor thin shots across the whole range of focus, then you'll need a very well calibrated and matched range finder and lens combination.

If you are planning to only use it for shots over a small range of specific distances, then you can get away with a less well matched range finder and lens, assuming you take the time to calibrate properly. The rangefinder on my Pressman was in rough shape and in need of a serious reconstruction to get full functionality out of it, but I'm able to get it close enough to allow me to take sharp images if I'm stopped down a bit and focusing in the rough ballpark of 15-25 feet from the camera. Focusing out side of that will have too much drift involved.


Lacking a working/semi-working range finder, then I think the easiest and most reliable way to use a camera like that is with scale-focus, then using a sighting tool that lets you estimate general distances. This method is used in marksmanship by measuring rough heights or width of common objects.

Specify your expected 'working distance', say 20 feet, then rig a sight that lets you compare the angular size of something, such as an average human head.

You can rig this with cardboard or tin 'flip up sights', and adjust the sight or the lens-board stop such that the when the width of a human head fills the 'range sight', then you know you're about the correct distance from subject.

This sight can even be as simple as a bit of thick foam/felt tape [like you might use on chair feet] and some safety pins pushed in. Easy to adjust and dial in your focus. - Set the camera up on a good tripod, carefully focus a subject on the ground glass, then place your pins to get your sight's distance. Experiment as is, then build a more durable version if you're happy with how it works.

This of course gets less reliable the thinner the depth of field you aim for, but can allow you to get more of the back and foreground out of focus than the hyperfocus style shooting goes for.

 

[campy51]

I think it will be used for informal portraits and candid's of my grand kids at about 10-20 feet from the camera. Will that work using the Xenotar 135mm at f11-f22 with HP5? I will also be using a flash at times.

 

[cjbecker]

Sounds like it will kinda be the weegee way. 1/200 f16 flash and locked at 10 foot. Shoot away.

Im pretty sure I read that is what he used.

 

[hsandler]

I think it will be used for informal portraits and candid's of my grand kids at about 10-20 feet from the camera. Will that work using the Xenotar 135mm at f11-f22 with HP5? I will also be using a flash at times.

Yes, if you are using direct flash with hp5 at EI 400 or 800 you can get away with f22 for such shots at moderate distances with most old flash units. For extra fun, try flashbulbs! Grandkids will love those, but use a shield over the flash in case a bulb explodes at close distance.

 

[shutterfinger]

Does it have a side rangefinder or a top rangefinder? If side which brand?

 

[Ariston]

What if the rangefinder was slightly off and I focus until the image in the rangefinder is almost dead on, would that be doing the same thing as long as the aperture was at f11-f16?

What if the rangefinder was slightly off and I focus until the image in the rangefinder is almost dead on, would that be doing the same thing as long as the aperture was at f11-f16?

It is really easy to change the infinity stop on the rail. Focus at infinity on the ground glass, then set your infinity stop at that point. Now your rangefinder should work. I don't know if a non-standard lens will mess up this method, but it worked for me with my 127mm Ektar on my speed graphic. You can always just check with your ground glass. That stop is easy to set.

 

[Dan Fromm]

It is really easy to change the infinity stop on the rail. Focus at infinity on the ground glass, then set your infinity stop at that point. Now your rangefinder should work. I don't know if a non-standard lens will mess up this method, but it worked for me with my 127mm Ektar on my speed graphic. You can always just check with your ground glass. That stop is easy to set.

I think you are mistaken. There's a manual. Have you read it?

 

[RLangham]

I think you are mistaken. There's a manual. Have you read it?

Ummm... about which part, because that was also my experience, calibrating my Pacemaker Speed's Kalart with a tripod and loupe?

 

[Dan Fromm]

Ummm... about which part, because that was also my experience, calibrating my Pacemaker Speed's Kalart with a tripod and loupe?

Well, with the Kalart getting the RF to agree with the GG at infinity is the first step. It then has to be adjusted to agree with the GG at intermediate and near distances. Fiddly painful job.

Go here https://1drv.ms/f/s!AggQfcczvHGN7QPLzcnfQqi0-7pf to get the Kalart adjustment manual.

 

[btaylor]

I would read up on what the press photographers were doing back in the Graflex heyday. Those guys (like Weegee) knew what they were doing.
I had to adjust a Kalart side mounted rangefinder once, found the procedures on Graflex.org. It was pretty easy to adjust- it wasn’t too far off to begin with.

 

[Ariston]

Well, with the Kalart getting the RF to agree with the GG at infinity is the first step. It then has to be adjusted to agree with the GG at intermediate and near distances. Fiddly painful job.

Go here https://1drv.ms/f/s!AggQfcczvHGN7QPLzcnfQqi0-7pf to get the Kalart adjustment manual.

I think you are mistaken. There's a manual. Have you read it?

I have not read the manual, but my rangefinder works now. I was just sharing my experience. It is easy to tell on the ground glass whether it works or not. It may be that my rangefinder didn't require calibrating. Who knows. But I am definitely no expert.

 

[campy51]

Does it have a side rangefinder or a top rangefinder? If side which brand?

Top rangefinder

 

[RLangham]

Well, with the Kalart getting the RF to agree with the GG at infinity is the first step. It then has to be adjusted to agree with the GG at intermediate and near distances. Fiddly painful job.

Go here https://1drv.ms/f/s!AggQfcczvHGN7QPLzcnfQqi0-7pf to get the Kalart adjustment manual.

Oh, I understand what you mean. I just had to set the infinity tabs right and adjust the cam on my Pacemaker because the rangefinder was already set up for the Optar lens. I imagine it'd be different if I tried to go to a different focal length.

 

[jim10219]

I think it will be used for informal portraits and candid's of my grand kids at about 10-20 feet from the camera. Will that work using the Xenotar 135mm at f11-f22 with HP5? I will also be using a flash at times.

Wait, you bought a Xenotar with plans to shoot it at f/11-f/22? That's an awfully expensive lens is you're not planning on taking advantage of it's speed.

 

[Luckless]

Wait, you bought a Xenotar with plans to shoot it at f/11-f/22? That's an awfully expensive lens is you're not planning on taking advantage of it's speed.

It is better to have and not need, than need and not have?

 

[jim10219]

It is better to have and not need, than need and not have?

True. But I would rather have and not need the extra money. Xenotars are expensive lenses!

I'll admit it. I'm just jealous. O.P., you picked a mighty nice lens there! Take good care of her!

 

[shutterfinger]

When new the Crown Special with the Xenotar sold for less than the standard Crown with an Optar.

When you get it check that a cam is present in the rangefinder then check the cam number to this list https://graflex.org/speed-graphic/top-rangefinder-cams.html .
If you have a factory matched cam/lens then you're good to go if they agree at infinity.
Download https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1sPJkp-MdghM0RuVXpkZnRnbVk/view?usp=sharing , http://www.southbristolviews.com/pics/Graphic/manual-pdf/servicemanual.pdf