Critically assessing negatives for better prints

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

Many people here have a sharp eye for their negatives, and concepts like contrast control, tonality, separation, gradation, etc, seem to be the basis for their critical assessment of their negatives. Right now my own apparatus is limited to figuring out densities: shadow details (adjust exposure), highlights density (adjust exposition), and general over/under exposure/development.

I'm interested in expanding that knowledge for standard RC/fiber printing, working with 35 and 120 negs, but how? I realise more and more that a crappy negative will not be saved by any printing technique.

Most photo books I've found culminate in explaining how density works, but do not go further in explaining causes behind other negative features. For example, would a developer have an effect on gradations, or is that more a feature of the paper you print on? Or does it depend only on having the proper light? How does midtone separation work? Etc etc.

If someone knows a good book, or a collection of articles about such topics it would make my life much easier. The Film Dev Cookbook has started to point me in the right direction, but I'd like to see some practical examples of what they explain. I wish somebody wrote a compendium of the cause-effect relationships between the major variables involved in the production of silver photography and the resulting aesthetics properties.

 

[MSchuler]

I also wish that there was a good book. I think that the best thing would be to take a class with a good printer, follow their advice and compare the results. But since I live in the middle of nowhere right now, I haven't done this.

What I've found most useful is to print the same negative on a bunch of different (fiber) papers and compare. This gives me a good sense of how finish affects density and how midtones vary. Doing this with negatives with a variety of densities (high-tone images, very dark images) also helps.

 

[mono]

How about Les McLeans book?!

 

[esanford]

Many people here have a sharp eye for their negatives, and concepts like contrast control, tonality, separation, gradation, etc, seem to be the basis for their critical assessment of their negatives. Right now my own apparatus is limited to figuring out densities: shadow details (adjust exposure), highlights density (adjust exposition), and general over/under exposure/development.

I'm interested in expanding that knowledge for standard RC/fiber printing, working with 35 and 120 negs, but how? I realise more and more that a crappy negative will not be saved by any printing technique.

Most photo books I've found culminate in explaining how density works, but do not go further in explaining causes behind other negative features. For example, would a developer have an effect on gradations, or is that more a feature of the paper you print on? Or does it depend only on having the proper light? How does midtone separation work? Etc etc.

If someone knows a good book, or a collection of articles about such topics it would make my life much easier. The Film Dev Cookbook has started to point me in the right direction, but I'd like to see some practical examples of what they explain. I wish somebody wrote a compendium of the cause-effect relationships between the major variables involved in the production of silver photography and the resulting aesthetics properties.

I have said time and time again that the best book on the subject is Fred Picker's Zone VI Workshop. This book is more then 30 years old and handles this topic in a straight forward, concise and simple manner. He teaches you how to find you film speed, development time and how to create a "proper proof" thereby enabling you to control every aspect of your photography. This book is out of print but can be found on Ebay or other used book sites daily. Many photographers consider the book dated and "old school". However, if you read it and do each of the exercises, you will be absolutely amazed at how predictable your negatives will be. Once you master this technique you will be able to use proofed negatives to determine everything from filter factors to flash guide numbers. You will also be able to do negative contraction and expansion a' la' the zone system.... Try it! I have 15 copies that I share with young people wanting to learn b&W photography.

 

[fhovie]

I know that for me - Sharpness is the first dealbreaker - unless it is pinhole - there should be a subject area that is razor sharp. Then if the negative is too dense or too thin, I usually will not spend much time with it because there is limited time and too many negs that have a high probability of making great prints. too thin and too dense always seem to fall short of great. Contrast and tonality are what is left - not too thin and not too dense and not too soft. I also reconsider composition. A great negative has obviously good composition - like a good print.

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

Well, being the owner of BOTH the Zone VI wkshp and Les McLeans' book, I think I will have to re-do my classes and go back to reading them.

Any other suggestions? What about BTZS?

 

[juan]

I second the Zone VI Workshop. In addition to what you learn how to do, you learn to not waste your time trying to get a good print from an unprintable negative.

I also find it very tough to evaluate negatives from small film - a proper proof is the only way I have ever figured out how to evaluate my negatives.
juan

 

[jp80874]

I sense the frustration both in what you say and my experiences that led to such statements. Have you tried Les' film test? If not that, have you tried bracketing. Just to confirm terms, by bracketing I mean metering for shadow detail, shooting the same image at the meter setting and then several stops either direction. Then try printing those negatives and see for yourself what difference in detail and tone those changes make. When you find a setting you like, change the iso on the meter to match. For example I shoot T Max 400 at 200. By doing that I find a higher percentage of my images print the way I envisoned them when I set up the shot.

I am so glad you asked. I hope this helps.

John Powers

 

[firecracker]

I also wish that there was a good book. I think that the best thing would be to take a class with a good printer, follow their advice and compare the results.

I agree. You have to train your eye first by studying the differences in print quality. But ultimately it's how you want to print your photos, not necessarily how your negs are made to look in the first place. Keep the good images and worry about the conditions of the poor negs later, which you'll be able to handle along the way.

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

I think I'll start by being more methodical in my printing and actually re-do some photos more than once to "get" them. What's the hardest for me now is to have the critical concepts. I can look at my picture and see that something's wrong with it, but I'm at a loss figuring out what is wrong with it, and what I could do to ameliorate it because I still don't get all the cause-effects. If it was music, I would say that I can spot when a note is wrong, but I cannot say that it should be one fifth higher to make it sound better. Does that make sense?

Thanks also for all the comments so far. When I have some time I'll post some pics in the critique gallery to get an educated beating!

 

[Mike Kennedy]

Hi Michel,
Here are a couple of tips that really helped me "dial in" my negs. First, I got a nice little light box. Not from a photo store but from an Artist Supply shop (saved 45% on cost). For a magnifier I took an APE-HUGGERS advice and use my fast 50mm Nikkor lens (reversed) to check out my negs.
Last, I decided to revisit my old notes from my first photography course and discovered that lesson #1 said I should "Wright Down" all of my exposure data: f/stop, shutter speed, lens,lighting, etc. When you compare your notes with your development data it gives you a starting point for improvement. Viewing negs on a light box with notes in hand and a small scratch pad to jot down your own TIPS has really improved my EYE.

Good Shooting,
Mike

 

[noseoil]

Mike has given the best advice on the subject I have read on this thread. If you don't take notes about the shot (asa rating, light, developer, time, temperature, print evaluation, etc.) on a regular basis, you will be pissing into the wind while chasing your own tail, like the proverbial "whiffle bird."

I spent a lot of time being laughed at when I first started with B&W because of an elaborate note sheet I developed. It took longer to take the notes than to do the processing, at least it seemed that way. After three years now, I've streamlined things quite a bit to a single development time for my roll film and the high & low values for large format sheet film (btzs). Since I'm a bit denser than my thickest negatives and haven't taken any classes on photography, it has taken this long to get a handle on things. Fortunately taking notes, being stubborn, anal, and overly analytical (ask my wife about that one) has had its benefits. I think I have found a wonderful creative outlet for my own personality disorder, although those on the "soap box" may disagree with that last statement. tim

P.S. "Those who don't learn from history, are doomed to take lots of shitty pictures" Q.F.

 

[fwp]

I learned to quickly evaluate negatives while taking photography classes at the local college. One class in particular required ~5 finished prints a week. After a few weeks I learned how to look at a negative on a light table and determine how difficult it would be to print.

 

[Ringflash]

Try Barry Thornton's "Edge of Darkness." He takes you down to grain level. Strong opinions backed up with fully explained experimentation. A pungent read.

 

[Bob Carnie]

A very simple start is to lay an newspaper on a light table and lay your negatives overtop. You should be able to read fine type through the highlight section. Look into the shawdows , do you see detail there. if so you have a decent negative.

From this point I would suggest doing a ring around development for your film and then for your paper.

As others suggested Freds, Les's books will be good to work with.

A practical note. A properly exposed/developed 35mm neg should print nicely at about a grade 2. A properly exposed/developed 2 1/4 and 4x5 negative should print nicely at about a grade 1 1/2.
*D76 , Rodinal, Tmax* I find pmk requires a higher starting point.

Rather than re print the same neg over and over to get a better print* it may be a crappy neg to start with* see how your negatives print at 1 1/2 and 2 depending upon your format and if they print nicely, look at these negative and really analyse the highlight densitys and shadow densities. Now you are starting to see what a good neg looks like.
Put some of these negatives in a sleeve and tape to your lightbox. Now any new negs coming into your darkroom , judge them to your *good* negatives.

After some work this will start you being more aware of what the neg should look like for normal printing.

Definately start simple and work your self into the testing .
In Montreal there are some really fine printers. Once you have a negative you like , send this neg to a good printer to make a master print to hang in your darkroom for constant reference.. * this came from Fred Picker and I always thought it was good advice**