Creating larger negatives for contact printing.

[Robert Brummitt]

Another way.

I understand that Eugene Smith hated darkroom work. So much so that he make one perfect print with dodges and burns and cropped then made a copy neg of that print. The neg was large maybe 8x10.
With these he would just contact print. Cutting his darkroom time short. I'll have to go back in my books and videos to see if this is true. Maybe PE could answer this?

 

[Photo Engineer]

IDK if the story is true, but we used to make dupe negs from prints quite easily. We used to use old Super XX sheet film.

Just be aware that there is some loss in this process due to the limitations of reflection print materials.

PE

 

[Robert Brummitt]

Found it!
Eugene Smith made copy negatives of some of his most important images and made his later prints from these copy negatives. The results are a slight loss of printing scale (more contrast and less gradations) and detail, but if you didn’t have the prints side by side you would have a very difficult time telling one from the other.

Why did Smith do it? Apparently with "Walk to Paradise" he had simply lost the negative. When CBS Sunday Morning worked on a Smith special, they asked if they could borrow the negative to make some prints. Smith had to break the news that he did not have it. CBS asked if they could borrow his vintage print to make a copy negative. When Smith saw the results, he asked CBS for the negative, with which he then produced virtually all the prints of Walk to Paradise currently in the market. Obviously, the vintage (and we will discuss that factor later) print exhibits qualities that the later prints do not and is much more highly valued.

Smith went on to make his own copy negatives, which he used on particularly troublesome prints, like his famous Minamata image. Prints made from the original negative are about 40-50% higher than prints made from the copy negative.

Source was http://www.iphotocentral.com/collecting/article_view.php/11/11/1

 

[Dan Williams]

xray dupe film comes in all sizes...try it you'll lkie it!!
Best, Peter

Peter,

I have a 100 sheet box of x-ray dup film but have had inconsistent results with it. I have had some success with D-72 and also with a developer I got from my dentist. The stuff from my dentist came with a bottle of fixer. The bottles were just marked "Developer" and "Fixer" and the wholesalers name and contact info. They were also marked to be used full strength. The developer had a very short life once the bottle was opened.

What developer do you use? Where do you get it?

Dan

 

[Curt]

It seems like the best way to get a large negative is to either have it made by a lab or shoot a larger original. Of course if you are young and full of energy then experiment away. It looks like most of the suggestions lead to tinkering and figuring it out.

 

[ic-racer]

It seems like the best way to get a large negative is to either have it made by a lab or shoot a larger original. Of course if you are young and full of energy then experiment away. It looks like most of the suggestions lead to tinkering and figuring it out.

???

The Ultrafine Continuous Tone Duplicating positive exposes under an enlarger and develops in Dektol under a standard safelight. What could be simpler?

 

[richard ide]

Too bad large film is difficult to get today. I can remember using 30" x 40" PlusXpan for many years. It was a stock item at Kodak. I bought duplicating film in 48" rolls off the shelf.

 

[Curt]

I spend some time on their site just now, I didn't see a tech sheet for the duplicating process but you mentioned Dektol, have you used this process very much? This actually sounds like something I'd try for some of my older 120 negatives. I might give it a go if it works well without a lot of time spent on determining factors.

 

[guitstik]

I guess that my query has more to it than I had expected. I knew that if I put it out here that I would get a lot of good advice and I did, now I just need to get an enlarger. I had hoped to find a lab in my area that could do the enlarging for me but it appears that this is a dying art form and that's a shame because from what I have read here, this could really enhance a film shooters arsenal of tools.

 

[ic-racer]

I spend some time on their site just now, I didn't see a tech sheet for the duplicating process but you mentioned Dektol, have you used this process very much? This actually sounds like something I'd try for some of my older 120 negatives. I might give it a go if it works well without a lot of time spent on determining factors.

Curt,
I have not had a chance to use the stuff myself, but when I picked up my 8x10 enlarger I had a discussion with the guy at the lab. They used that same material from Ultrafine in large rolls for one step in making poster-size silk screen. They exposed the sheets under orange safelight using my enlarger with an Aristo head projected on the wall. Then processed in some bulk developer (also from Ultrafine) which was similar to Dektol.

My stupidity...They tried to get me to take two large rolls of the "positive sheetfilm" with the enlarger but I said "why would anyone need positive film?" and it was thrown away....

My take on the Pt/Pd is that I'd rather have the massive 8x10 enlarger in the darkroom and go in the field with the 'smaller' 8x10 camera, rather than use 11x14 or 16x20 camera to make the negatives.

I have not done any of the big negatives yet, it is on my list of things to do this winter or next.

 

[cchisena]

X-Ray Dup Film

To: Peter Schrager, I sent you an e-mail the other day on the dup film.I've been trying to make 11X14 dups with the Fuji blue tint dup film .The problem I'm having is the blacks are very weak . The clear film density is very high. The dental film is not available in large sizes. Do you have any suggetions for me? Much thanks,Chip

 

[Peter Schrager]

Chip- please tell me exactly what you are doing and then maybe I or someone here can help you
info such as your exposure times and what developer you use
it might help!!
thanx, Peter

 

[holmburgers]

This article talks about making enlarged negatives by projection onto Lith film and then reversal processing them. If the following statement is true, this would be very convenient.

"Using this process, Lithographic (lith) film does not exhibit its usual extreme contrast, but rather gives excellent continuous tones and pinholes do not occur."

http://www.alternativephotography.com/pdf/enlarged-neg-by-reversal.pdf

Can anyone comment on this?

 

[jp498]

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

is a related thread. I tried xray dupe film with 3 developer combinations. You get three different contrast results depending on what you're going for.

 

[2F/2F]

Speaking of doing this, I was just in at Freestyle, and they have terrible (even horrifying) news. Apparently, all litho film is being discontinued in manufacture, and they cannot find anyone else who will make it for them. WTF?

 

[Photo Engineer]

I guess I'll have to come up with a lith film formula then!

PE

 

[c6h6o3]

I am at an impasse here as to how to go about creating a larger negative for contact printing from a smaller negative such as a 35mm or MF negs.

I am wanting to do larger prints in the range of 30x36 in Pt/Pl and gum bichromate but the negs I have are to small and I don't have access to LF or ULF cameras yet.

Sandy King makes beautiful carbon prints from 6x7 cm negatives he enlarges digitally to whatever size he wants. He develops his rollfilm in Pyrocat (HD? MC? I'm not sure which) using the two solution minimal agitation method to produce quite flat, but amazingly sharp negatives. He then scans them with a high resolution scanner, adds appropriate contrast with Photoshop and then prints the negative on Pictorico stock. I can't tell the difference between prints made from these negatives and prints made from the same size in camera negatives.

 

[holmburgers]

Lith film, really, gone??

Which "D" word is worse.... digital or discontinued?!

 

[removed account4]

???

The Ultrafine Continuous Tone Duplicating positive exposes under an enlarger and develops in Dektol under a standard safelight. What could be simpler?

i use this film, it is the same thing as kodak " SO-132 " single step duplicating film .

it is simple to use, with a 300W flood light ... it's for contact printing
( the same speed as a silver chloride emulsion ( like azo ) )

durst makes ( or used to make ) an enlarger lamp / enlarger that can do this
( the one that can be used to enlarge negatives on pt/pd + azo )
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

but i don't imagine it would be cost effective just to enlarge a few negatives ...

good luck !

john

 

[David William White]

Speaking of doing this, I was just in at Freestyle, and they have terrible (even horrifying) news. Apparently, all litho film is being discontinued in manufacture, and they cannot find anyone else who will make it for them. WTF?

They are now featuring Arista II ortho litho films on the .004 base, and the notes say this is a replacement for the APHS film they used to stock. The new Arista II films seem to be available in a wide variety of sizes, up to 20x24 and now in 24" rolls as well.

I guess they found another supplier? And all is well?

P.S. just noticed that they also have 4x5 'film' sizes (slightly smaller) for those that shoot it in-camera. I don't recall them having that before.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

Wow that's cool

I understand that Eugene Smith hated darkroom work. So much so that he make one perfect print with dodges and burns and cropped then made a copy neg of that print. The neg was large maybe 8x10.
With these he would just contact print. Cutting his darkroom time short. I'll have to go back in my books and videos to see if this is true. Maybe PE could answer this?

W. Eugene Smith printed heavily burned and dark prints. I didn't now of that trick. But you need an 8x10 camera to make the neg right?

 

[c6h6o3]

W. Eugene Smith printed heavily burned and dark prints. I didn't now of that trick. But you need an 8x10 camera to make the neg right?

Right. I just bit the bullet and bought one. While I'd rather photograph with it than any other camera, I must say that the cost of film for it is a killer. I've been working a lot more with the 5x7 lately.

 

[macandal]

Forget this. This is all too difficult. My head is spinning. Who does this and how much would it cost? I'm going from 4x5 to a larger size, definitely larger than 8x10. (My apologies for reviving a 6-year-old thread.)