Crazy idea: Developing film in the wild?

[Terry Breedlove]

Which WW2 Photographer would develop his film in his Helmut at times ? Ah my brain is in shut down mode I can't remember.

 

[pdeeh]

5

Dumping any chemical into a creek in a National Park or Wilderness Area or protected watershed can deservedly get you in trouble. What you regard
as harmless might be viewed with horror by a limnologist or field biologist, not to mention the fellow filling his canteen a hundred yards down the creek. Silver salts can be quite bad for those tiny aquatic critters you don't even notice, on which fish depend, and I can think of various entire categories of popular "nontoxic" products (nontoxic to humans) that play utter havoc with aquatic life.

Dumping a developer containing phenidone in to an aquatic environment is vandalism. The safety sheet for these products mention the effects on fish and water life, so pretending that you didn't know will not work in court. Last time I went there, Norway was a country with a government and laws. Check local regulations concerning disposal of waste and then abide by them.

.

much as it feels
quite bizarre to be quoting a drew wiley post with approval.
I have to say
+1

 

[Terry Breedlove]

Or Silver for that matter. There is probably no way to dispose of any type of developing chemistry in the mountains without having some adverse affect. I definately wouldn't dump it directly into a stream. Pack it in, pack it out.

It would so diluted and very fast that there would be zero issues. However just on a right kind of thing to do standings I would not. Not to mention breaking the law I am sure.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Dont´t get me wrong, I do not advocate dumping chemicals from a B&W process in the wilderness. But we should look at this issue with some common sense: If one person develops a few sheets and dumps let´s say one or two quarts of spent fixer into a not too small stream, it gets diluted very quickly. A hundred yards down the stream, it would be probably so diluted you could not trace it any more. It is a different story if everybody does it, or if a large scale chemicals production facility or a B&W processing plant does it. The latter two being a problem for sewage water plants and the environment.

If you want to be environmentally friendly (and most probably compliant with environmental regulations), you can develop and fix during your trip and you evaporate most of the water from the fixer and the developer. That way, you can have a small bottle with spent fixer & developer you can dispose of properly. Yet this way, you still have to carry around all equipment and chemicals. Alternatively, look for a darkroom or two which are on your trip. Then you have a decent working environment and - if arranged beforehand - the chemicals you want/need will be available, and no carrying around of equipment.

The idea of dumping any chemicals in the wilderness is totally irresponsible. Fixer in particular because it contains silver is particularly bad. Silver, even at Very low concentrations, is toxic to many organisms. Hydroquinone similarly is toxic to fish. As the signs in our parks say "Take only photographs, leave only footprints." The poster needs to read the MSDS for various chemicals and the environmental warnings before saying that a few liters of this or that do no matter. For certain chemicals the limits quoted are often parts per billion that's billion with a 'B'.

 

[removed account4]

even with the simplest of simple developers and fixers ( or stabilizers )
there are byproducts from converting the film to a negative that need to be muled out.
just get a bucket and put your waste developer / fix in there. if you have powdered coffee you can use that as developer
without the vit c and washing soda it will work, fixer ... you will probably need some fixer for a short fix. ammonium thiosufate
(speed fixer ) doesn't take long to clear film and it has a higher capacity than regular sodium thiosulfate.

good luck in your off-grid adventure.

 

[Vaughn]

As an ex-wilderness ranger, if I found a photographer dumping any kind of photo chemical in a creek or on the land, he'd get a ticket and kicked out of the wilderness. Period.

This also includes all rinse water -- even the pre-developement soak.

Even 'bio-degradable' soaps can not be put into the water.

Outside the wilderness, I would still ticket the photographer on Forest Service land...tho I might give a warning first if it is not too excessive.

Of course if it was AA, I would not ticket him, being that he's dead.

 

[RauschenOderKorn]

The idea of dumping any chemicals in the wilderness is totally irresponsible. Fixer in particular because it contains silver is particularly bad. Silver, even at Very low concentrations, is toxic to many organisms. Hydroquinone similarly is toxic to fish. As the signs in our parks say "Take only photographs, leave only footprints." The poster needs to read the MSDS for various chemicals and the environmental warnings before saying that a few liters of this or that do no matter. For certain chemicals the limits quoted are often parts per billion that's billion with a 'B'.

Thanks for reading my post so thoroughly. As it seems, you missed that I suggested to the OP to evaporate (most of) the water and dispose of the remainings in a proper way or to use a local darkroom from the beginning (assuming that the darkroom disposes of the waste in a compliant way).

With regards to emission limits set by the applicable authorities at my place and MSDS of the chemicals: I have studied both, as I dispose of the chemical waste from my darkroom in a compliant and environmental-friendly way.

 

[Ixtl]

Maybe you could evaporate the water, and just carry out the sludge for proper disposal later on?

 

[DREW WILEY]

Maybe AA would have been dead a lot sooner if someone caught him dumping chem in the creek. Whenever some trailer trash types turned out to be
terrible neighbors in the hills, even it the sherriff didn't respond, you could always count on fish and game. Any of their upside-down cars, oil cans.
or rusting junk adjacent to even a seasonal runoff streambed would warrant a serious citation; and if that was ignored, the sheriff would show up with
a court order and handcuffs. Cliven Bundy would probably get hung from the nearest oak limb.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Thanks for reading my post so thoroughly. As it seems, you missed that I suggested to the OP to evaporate (most of) the water and dispose of the remainings in a proper way or to use a local darkroom from the beginning (assuming that the darkroom disposes of the waste in a compliant way).

With regards to emission limits set by the applicable authorities at my place and MSDS of the chemicals: I have studied both, as I dispose of the chemical waste from my darkroom in a compliant and environmental-friendly way

My point was that you can't say that 1 or 2 liters would be safe. Probably no amount is really safe. Therefore it is important to observe what the EPA considers safe.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Here in Florida we have the problem of people making drugs in the Ocala National Forest. Their presence has been very hard to eliminate.

 

[Terry Breedlove]

As an ex-wilderness ranger, if I found a photographer dumping any kind of photo chemical in a creek or on the land, he'd get a ticket and kicked out of the wilderness. Period.

This also includes all rinse water -- even the pre-developement soak.

Even 'bio-degradable' soaps can not be put into the water.

Outside the wilderness, I would still ticket the photographer on Forest Service land...tho I might give a warning first if it is not too excessive.

Of course if it was AA, I would not ticket him, being that he's dead.

You could ticket him but not kick him out of the forest.

 

[Vaughn]

You could ticket him but not kick him out of the forest.

Not so sure of that (out of the wilderness for sure...but perhaps not the out of the National Forest). For examples, if you have a dog in the National Park Wilderness and get caught, you have to leave the wilderness right then and there -- same for any wheeled vehicle or contraption (meat carts, bikes, etc) in any wilderness.

Forks, WA -- spent the 4th of July there when I was hitchhiking through in 1973...was an interesting place. Almost got a job chocker-setting there...glad I did not, really. Nice to still have all my limbs!

 

[removed account4]

As an ex-wilderness ranger, if I found a photographer dumping any kind of photo chemical in a creek or on the land, he'd get a ticket and kicked out of the wilderness. Period.

This also includes all rinse water -- even the pre-developement soak.

Even 'bio-degradable' soaps can not be put into the water.

Outside the wilderness, I would still ticket the photographer on Forest Service land...tho I might give a warning first if it is not too excessive.

Of course if it was AA, I would not ticket him, being that he's dead.

THANK YOU !!

 

[Vaughn]

THANK YOU !!

Well, for the record, in the ten years I was a wilderness ranger, I gave one warning notice and zero tickets. I'd be out for ten days at a time and would perhaps see 4 visitors the whole trip, most times no one (except for the opening of the deer season). This was 1981 to 1990. Now I see no one when I head out there on my own.

 

[Nodda Duma]

To the poster going to India and considering callotypes: A more practical compromise to consider would be dry plate photography, which dates from the 1880s and doesn't require development on-the-spot.

 

[dreamingartemis]

Just throwing in my 2 cents, but why not just shoot instant film instead? You can either scan the result or shoot the instant film once your back home. At least that way, the issue of developing in the wild is eliminated and you still get the shots you want.

 

[Terry Breedlove]

Not so sure of that (out of the wilderness for sure...but perhaps not the out of the National Forest). For examples, if you have a dog in the National Park Wilderness and get caught, you have to leave the wilderness right then and there -- same for any wheeled vehicle or contraption (meat carts, bikes, etc) in any wilderness.

Forks, WA -- spent the 4th of July there when I was hitchhiking through in 1973...was an interesting place. Almost got a job chocker-setting there...glad I did not, really. Nice to still have all my limbs!

Ah Forks was rocking in the 70's I went straight to logging after high school. Just what we Forks boys did you know. My dad was a faller my brothers also loggers now my nephews is logging. I had few injuries. Broke my neck, a couple concussions, lost three fingers. Now I am in Law Enforcement and guess what i got assaulted last January almost died had brain surgery to save my life in March and now I am fighting to regain something normal and healthy. Man I need some rest.

 

[NedL]

To the poster going to India and considering callotypes: A more practical compromise to consider would be dry plate photography, which dates from the 1880s and doesn't require development on-the-spot.

Thanks! And by the way I've been paying attention to yours and they are getting really nice!

Actually there is one way of making calotypes that will last long enough, but I'm hoping it might be possible to get closer to authentic. So there is already a fallback position: a kind of French calotype that was not used in India. Those guys traveled with carts and porters and many helpers and all their chemicals and supplies.... One photographer in India ( I want to say it was Samuel Bourne, off the top of my head ) traveled with the calotypes wet and mounted between glass... and these were big, like 15x20 inches! Can you imagine carting all that glass around?

What they didn't have was things like plastic bags. I'm going to start just by vacuum sealing and see what the keeping properties are like. Then on to more extremes like coating with gum or maybe agar agar. I've got a couple years to play around and see if the problem can be solved... and figure out a light weight camera.

 

[AgX]

With regards to emission limits set by the applicable authorities at my place and MSDS of the chemicals: I have studied both, as I dispose of the chemical waste from my darkroom in a compliant and environmental-friendly way.

Depends:
Wastewater authority at my county on request stated ANY volume of photographic bath to be waste and as such illegal to be put down the sewage system.

 

[pdeeh]

Last year I did a piece of collaborative public art using cyanotypes in a municipal park.
We wanted to wash the cyanotypes in a decent-sized fast stream in the park - we checked with environmental dept first and even given the tiny tiny amounts of entirely non-toxic material that would be introduced thereby, they refused.
(not complaining, just noting)

 

[Nodda Duma]

Thanks! And by the way I've been paying attention to yours and they are getting really nice!

Thank you and good luck!

 

[Vaughn]

Ah Forks was rocking in the 70's I went straight to logging after high school. Just what we Forks boys did you know. My dad was a faller my brothers also loggers now my nephews is logging. I had few injuries. Broke my neck, a couple concussions, lost three fingers. Now I am in Law Enforcement and guess what i got assaulted last January almost died had brain surgery to save my life in March and now I am fighting to regain something normal and healthy. Man I need some rest.

Get your rest! Sounds like you have more than earned it!

Yep...glad I did not become a choak-setter -- and that the wilderness was the extent of my 'law enforcement' responcibilities. Building trails and packing mules (my main job as a wilderness ranger, along with occasionally fighting fires) was enough for me! Three good mule-kicks, tossed off a horse (nothing else quite like a rodeo on a narrow ridge trail!), hit by a log rolling at me, fire in my face, drunk hunters, and a lot of ground-pounding...it was the good life! And nothing else gets one ready to raise a set of triplet boys like packing mules!

 

[Terry Breedlove]

Sometimes I wish i was young and could do it all over again Vaughn. Hey you know that you had a great adventure in life right.

 

[Terry Breedlove]

Get your rest! Sounds like you have more than earned it!

This was me in January. Hey I survived yet again and still fighting on right. I was ambushed from behind by a criminal from Somalia of all places. Hit in the back of the head several times with a steal disk and just about died. A month later things were getting real bad and I was in the emergency room in Seattle and they found massive amounts of bleeding in the brain. My brain was pushed 6mm over the the side and causing all kinds of havoc. They told me when they get people with that much blood in the brain it is always in a deceased person so I got real lucky to live through it. Anyway went in to have brain surgery and fixed it on March 9th. A month later a CT scan showed new bleeding but they left it alone and it healed up on its own. I still have a hard time with balance and cognitive abilities but they expect a good recovery I just need time.