CPE2 Processor - rotation speed

Well I used my new to me CPE2 for the first time last night. Boy those reels are a PITA compared to Patterson! Might just be due to the film being old and curly but I couldn't get the entire film to load in the reel.

The other issue was on speed setting 1 every once in awhile the tank would just stop rotating. If I gave it some help it would finally get going again. On the speed 2 no problem is just chugged along.

I'm thinking speed 2 would be too fast for developing, what are your experiences? I used speed 2 for fixing and that seems to work fine.

The entire unit probably needs to be CLA'd.

Thanks for advice.

Eric Rose said:

Boy those reels are a PITA compared to Patterson! Might just be due to the film being old and curly but I couldn't get the entire film to load in the reel.

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I also find Paterson reels to load easier than Jobo reels.
Are you having issues with 120 or 135? I always clip the corners of the film on the leading edge; this helps to prevent the film getting trapped in the reel. With 120, I bend the leading inch or so in the opposite direction of the film's curl for the same reason. This makes a huge difference in how well it's taken up onto the reel.

Eric Rose said:

on speed setting 1 every once in awhile the tank would just stop rotating.

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Something's wrong, by the sound of it, unless you're working with very large tanks (4 reelers or so) with a lot of liquid. With a one or two reel tank and an appropriate liquid volume for rotation development, it shouldn't have a problem. Check for sources of friction. You might have to disassemble the motor and clean it; I've had shorts between the stator elements due to abrasion of the carbon brushes on mine if memory serves. It ran a lot better after a thorough cleaning.

Which speed works best, depends a lot. There's proponents for all flavors, it seems. I generally use the highest speed unless I experience problems with unevenness. In those situations, a pre-soak (although one more contentious issue...) helps in my case, I must admit. YMMV and all that.

I have a clear Jobo film reel with guides, which makes it a lot easier to load 120 film. 35mm needs to trim the corners and film must be straight with a slight curl with the reel, best to cut back the film if it curls on the end......but yeah a pain compared to the Paterson.
Motor may have spent a long time not being used, I'd lube what you can and let it run for an hour or so on high speed to free the workings up.
I have the old 1st model and motor runs fine on all speeds.

I suggest that you put the film on the reel emulsion side out. That is the reverse of the curl and that may be much easier.

Eric Rose said:

The other issue was on speed setting 1 every once in awhile the tank would just stop rotating. If I gave it some help it would finally get going again. On the speed 2 no problem is just chugged along.

I'm thinking speed 2 would be too fast for developing, what are your experiences? I used speed 2 for fixing and that seems to works fine.

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Speed 2 is the correct one for any developing. Speed 1 is too slow and weak, I think it is intended for print tanks but I won't use it either. The newer Jobo CPE2+ had only one speed similar to speed 2.

Sirius Glass said:

I suggest that you put the film on the reel emulsion side out. That is the reverse of the curl and that may be much easier.

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Doesn’t that mean touching the emulsion side a lot?

I snip the film, roll it backwards to reduce the curl, then snip again.

This is probably a good time to read all the Jobo service bulletins. Their 1501 reels manual recommends snip the ends like koraks said, iiirc they recommend using nail clippers so it has a nice curve

peoplemerge said:

Doesn’t that mean touching the emulsion side a lot?

I snip the film, roll it backwards to reduce the curl, then snip again.

This is probably a good time to read all the Jobo service bulletins. Their 1501 reels manual recommends snip the ends like koraks said, iiirc they recommend using nail clippers so it has a nice curve

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Keep your fingers on the reels. It may be worth a try.

When the film starts to snag, the is a section on the reels that you can grab the edge of the film to help it along. I have to do that quite often and it works well.

I have the original CPE2 with the two speed setting. The original instructions were the slower speed for negative developing, where you have quite a lot of fluid in the drums, and the faster speed for print drums where you are running minimal fluid. Worked very well for me.

I developed C41, E6, B&W reversal, Color Print film (C41), Kodak Duratrans display material, and a myriad of B&W films and their respective chemistry over about 30 years before it finally died. Literally thousands of rolls over the decades, not to mention the sheet film that it processed.

With film I used the slower speed for all of the processes, didn't matter what the process was. For prints, always the faster speed and especially so for RA4 which has an extremely short time. And before someone asks, I never once used a pre-wash on any process after having difficulties with Agfa RA4 chemistry and RA4 colour paper. I only used a pre-wash on RA4 process, never on anything else.

The most economical way to process 135 film is to use the 1500 series of tanks, with the 1510 for a single roll, 1520 for 2 rolls or the 1540 for 4 rolls. The 1540 is just the 1510m tank and the 1530 extender, does 4 rolls of 135 or 120 for 500ml of chemistry. It's actually slightly less than 500ml, but I always rounded it up to 500ml. With C41 chemistry and perfect results, 1 litre of chemistry does 8 rolls of film in two batches using 500ml of fresh chemistry and 4 rolls of film for each processing run.

The 1520 and 1530 extender will do 5 rolls of 135, but requires 600ml of chemistry, which is starting to tax the first model motor. I decided very early on that I would only do 4 rolls of 135 or 120 at a time with 500ml of chemistry. You really can hear the motor labouring with 600ml of chemistry.

Clip the corners of the 135 film with a pair of scissors, rounding isn't necessary. As for Paterson reels being easier to load, I never once lost a film loading competition when in a darkroom with others using Paterson compared to my Jobo reels; they are quick as. Just use your fingers and keep them pressed individually on each side as you forward the film.

Mick.

I started using the Jobo reels exclusively in 2001. At first certain films were difficult to load, but I learned little tricks (like loading the free, non-tape, end of 120 to the reel first). The Jobo reels, in my experience, leave a smoother and more even developed negative near the edges compared to Patterson. Overall it is worthwhile to learn the quirks of loading the reels.
I use Jobo reels for 35mm, 120, 16mm and Minox.

My experience with Jobo was at first, I had a terrible time. Careful trimming of the corners (I use a little corner rounder) just takes a tiny nip, then film glides on, and following Mick's advice holding your fingers on the sides of the reel keeps the film from poking out and getting caught.
Jobo is all I've used now for close to 10 years. I grew up with Paterson, also super easy. Every quality reel is easy with experience and patience.

I don't know if this is your problem, but I have found that at times the discs that hold the film will pop out of place with the centering cylinders. It is often hard to spot without looking carefully but it makes it difficult to get the film loaded. It is really bad with 120 film.

Thanks for all your advice!

Are your reels/tanks 1500 series or 2500 series? I have some 2500 reels and I found it makes quite a difference to gently try and pull the two halves of the reel apart while loading the 120 film. If I didn't do that, then the film would bind up and refuse to load.