"Count Up" vs "Count Down" Frame Counters...What Is Your Preference?

[ic-racer]

Since most cameras have frame counters that count up from 1, many might not know that there are also cameras that have frame counters that count down from the last frame on the roll.

In some ways the "Count Down" cameras are better. For example, one will know exactly when the last frame will be exposed without having to remember how many frames were loaded in the the cassette.

35mm cameras that "Count Down" also protect the exposed imaged within the cassette in case the back of the camera is unintentionally opened.

Anyone else have preferences one way or the other?



Some examples are Minolta 16mm cameras and Nikon N75 and N55.

 

[ic-racer]

In case one has never used it before, the Nikons mentioned above will wind all the film out of the cassette onto the takeup spool to determine how much film was in the cassette. Then It will expose the film backward starting at the cassette spool end, progessively winding the exposed frames into the cassette and counting down to one.

 

[grain elevator]

I like the idea of a camera that winds the exposed frames right into the casette where they are protected, but I don't have one. Which way the counter itself goes doesn't matter to me.

 

[Chan Tran]

Winding the film backward as you advance the film doesn't make me feel comfortable because you are winding with the cassette spool not as good as the camera take up spool.

 

[Paul Howell]

I like a count down, the Minolta 800si has a count down. With DX coded films tells me how many frames left regardless of 24 or 36 exposures, with non DX then it becomes a count up.

 

[brbo]

Winding the film backward as you advance the film doesn't make me feel comfortable because you are winding with the cassette spool not as good as the camera take up spool.

How good the film advancement is (regular frame spacing) is not a function of a take-up spool. I have only one camera that counts down the frames and spacing is always perfect.

I like a count down, the Minolta 800si has a count down. With DX coded films tells me how many frames left regardless of 24 or 36 exposures, with non DX then it becomes a count up.

I hate it when a camera decides for me how many frames can be shot on a roll of film. In some cameras I can get as much as 41 frames (that's with loading the camera in daylight) from a 36exp rolls. Some film manufacturers are more stingy than others, so I might only get 39 from some rolls.

 

[MattKing]

I have both, and as long as I remember which approach the camera at hand uses I like them similarly.
My only niggling complaint about the ones that count down is that the frame numbers you end up on the negative go the wrong way!

 

[Alan9940]

Since most of my 35mm camera are of the "count up" variety, it does jar my brain a bit when I use my Retina IIa which is a "count down" type. Also, the film winds on to the takeup spool like most 35mm cameras, even though it's a "count down" type, and you have to rewind back into the cassette when done.

 

[foc]

Winding the film backward as you advance the film doesn't make me feel comfortable because you are winding with the cassette spool not as good as the camera take up spool.

In most cameras, whether count up or down, it is the film perforations engaged in the film sprocket wheel that measure the amount of film advance.

My understanding is that rewind advance into the film cassette was designed to save the photos already taken if the camera door was opened mid roll. The rest of the roll was fogged but not the images in the cassette.

 

[ic-racer]

For the Nikon cameras mentioned, that wind up the exposed film to the cassette, the frame counting is via infra-red sensor on the sprocket hole; the cameras have no sprockets!

 

[MultiFormat Shooter]

I definitely prefer "count up" cameras. Subjectively, they're what I am accustomed to. Objectively, they let you match the images, with the frame number on the film (i.e. frame number 1 is really the first image taken, not the 36th). Having the first frame taken numbered as 36 (or 24 or whatever), rather than 1 is a pain when cataloging film, at least to me.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I prefer count up counters, but I use which every the camera I am presently using have. While the Hasselblads count up, the NIkon AF cameras go one way or the other, each having made up its own mind without ever consulting me.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

There is a case to be made for cameras that wind the film on, then back into the cassette as you shoot. With Canon cameras, the cheapo Rebel T2 does that. The 1n though will only wind up until 36 no matter how much film is left. The T2 on the other hand winds all the film out, so you know exactly how many frames are left. For bulk loaders that is a plus.

 

[grahamp]

My old Voigtlander Vito B counts down - you have to set the starting value to match the film length. It also advances out of the cassette, and rewinds back (manually) after frame one is exposed. You can try and squeeze another frame or two, but the counter just sits on the dot at the end of the scale. I think that there may have been more variations in commercial film lengths back then (1950's), so knowing where the end is was more important.

At least you can hear the film come off the take-up spool and avoid having to fish for the leader

As long as I remember which camera I am using I don't care. They are slightly different as it is.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I prefer count up from 1. It makes more sense to me, but I can live with both.

 

[guangong]

I prefer count down. My count down cameras stop working after “1”, whereas with count up, I have the tendency to try and squeeze out additional shots after “36”. This creates a problem later filing negatives, and also running out of film when something interesting suddenly shows up.

 

[abruzzi]

I only have one count down camera—Kodak Retina IIIC—and it doesn’t know how many frames are in the roll. Since these days everything I shoot on 35 is bulk rolled, it makes things challenging since I’m not very accurate rolling the cassettes so the remaining count is never accurate. .

 

[ic-racer]

I only have one count down camera—Kodak Retina IIIC—and it doesn’t know how many frames are in the roll. Since these days everything I shoot on 35 is bulk rolled, it makes things challenging since I’m not very accurate rolling the cassettes so the remaining count is never accurate. .

Tell me more. So it always starts on "36"?

 

[MattKing]

I only have one count down camera—Kodak Retina IIIC—and it doesn’t know how many frames are in the roll. Since these days everything I shoot on 35 is bulk rolled, it makes things challenging since I’m not very accurate rolling the cassettes so the remaining count is never accurate. .

Tell me more. So it always starts on "36"?

No - you have to manually set the frame counter when you start. So if you get it wrong - due to mistake or because the amount of film in the cassette is uncertain - then the camera will either not get down to frame "1" when you run out of room on the roll, or you will get to "1" when there is more than one frame still available.
Bulk film in a Retina means you need to load the film into the cassettes with "Retina-like" precision!

 

[ic-racer]

No - you have to manually set the frame counter when you start. So if you get it wrong - due to mistake or because the amount of film in the cassette is uncertain - then the camera will either not get down to frame "1" when you run out of room on the roll, or you will get to "1" when there is more than one frame still available.
Bulk film in a Retina means you need to load the film into the cassettes with "Retina-like" precision!

Seems like a good way to do it. One would have the loaded cassette in-hand when stting the counter and presumable know how many frames. Otherwise, the cassette is locked in the camera, counting up until ... when?? How many frames did I load..??

 

[Anon Ymous]

I have both and don't care at all. The only minor peeve I have is with cameras which will not leave the leader out of the cassette when rewinding.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I'm glad we don't count birthdays backward.

 

[MFstooges]

I have a Nikon that sometimes counts and sometimes doesn't that I realize I don't really care. When it stops winding I reload.
Maybe I'll care if I do multiple exp or mid roll change but I don't do that these days.

 

[alanrockwood]

I like the count down method. It is used on my Canon Rebel SLR cameras. This way I know how many shots are left on the roll.

 

[mrosenlof]

I like auto-reset frame counters, which by their nature must count up