Correlation between film format and scanner

[Adrian Bacon]

That is one quirk of Adobe software I find annoying.
I actually use the subscription PhotoShop/Lightroom combination and there are some tasks which are just so much easier to do in one program and seem to work quite differently from the process in the other. In fact Lightroom Classic, the desktop version I use most, looks a lot like Lightroom, the web based version, but many functions are different. I really miss the levels control in LR, and frequently pass my scans images through PS for levels adjustments and cropping before importing into LR for fine tuning.

I use the LR classic version. LR CC is annoying to use on a computer, but functional enough if you’re on an iPad or iPhone.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I strongly second suggestions to consider DSLR scanning. I have spent a lot of money and time on scanners and scanning processes. I lucked into a V700 for $75 from a dentist on craigslist who used it to scan his X-rays. I then lucked into the holy grail of scanners, the Nikon Coolscan 9000ED for $450, from Adorama in "as-is" condition. Fixing it turned out to be as easy as opening up the case and plugging in the cable for one of the limit sensors which had fallen out. I also have a dslr scanning rig set up using my enlarger stand and a $10 light pad that I owned before these other scanners. I use a D5500 with the Nikon 55 f2.8 on it and neg lab pro for color film. I just purchased a 105 f2.8 to see if I can make my setup even better. Usually I take one shot but sometimes I stitch. So what about the results? Can you tell which scanner I used for each of these pictures?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/132764966@N03/46118837252/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/132764966@N03/48477618741/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/132764966@N03/49236831746/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/132764966@N03/49068208736/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/132764966@N03/44893247282/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/132764966@N03/32782545668/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/132764966@N03/48666330146/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/132764966@N03/49246311172/in/dateposted-public/


Answer key: V700, V700, Coolscan, Coolscan, DSLR, DSLR, DSLR, DSLR

 

[Adrian Bacon]

You need to take into account the end user. Not everybody has the technical expertise to realize good results with scanning via dslr, and with large format sheet film (the chosen format for @Alan Edward Klein), depending on output needs, the v800 may actually be the better choice.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Fair enough Adrian with respect to 4x5. It's definitely possible to DSLR scan it but I don't currently have a method. I was mostly responding to the original poster who was asking about medium format and 35mm scanning. Most of my examples are medium format, and I've never tried 35mm with my V700 because I don't have a holder for it. But I do not think there is any chance it could outperform DSLR scanning. I do have the holder for 35mm on the coolscan but haven't tried it out against the DSLR setup. Currently, my scanners are quarantined in a room with a covid patient so I will have to wait on that testing for a few weeks!

 

[athbr]

Are you definitely set on a dedicated scanner? I bought an Epson V550 and sold it again to commit to DSLR scanning. The results with my Nikon D850 are just so much better it's incredible. In terms of workflow speed, I think they are comparable. A used Nikon D800 with a macro lens will also set you back less than a decent film scanner.

Here is a great article about the workflow, and Nate's Lightroom Plugin for the conversion is fantastic: http://natephotographic.com/dslr-film-scanning-perfect-color-negatives/
Don't worry, you don't need a Lightroom subscription, buying an old stand-alone license for Lightroom 6 is what I use as well.

I use a Lomography film holder with this setup, but I am about to replace that with a custom built film holder to process an entire roll in one go. I used to have some slight problems with dust (see below), but all those problems were also resolved after learning with my first few rolls of film.

View attachment 244984

Here is a scan of one of my images (scanned at less than half the possible resolution and compressed for upload) and a detail crop:

Crop thumbnail:

View attachment 244985

Overall, the setup is comparable in terms of cost with a flatbed scanning workflow, but in my opinion is much more flexible in terms of film formats. Also, I am icnredibly happy with the results, as the colours also come out a lot nicer than on the Epson in my opinion.

What film format is this scan from?

Any chance you could share some information on this custom film holder?

 

[138S]

Just curious but why are you using film when you are going to digitise them, wouldn’t it be a lot simpler to just start with a high end digital camera?

It would be way simpler but it's not the same, by far.

 

[kahlheins]

What film format is this scan from?

Any chance you could share some information on this custom film holder?

It's from a 6x9 negative of a Fuji GW690 III. I am currently making a design for a 120 & 35mm film holder roughly based on this design: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3985120/files
However, I am adding an advance mechanism, film cleaning, improved assembly and some other features. The design will be made for 3D-printing "at home". I made a few prototypes, but time is scarce at the moment, so it will be a while until it is finished and ready to be shared.

 

[athbr]

It's from a 6x9 negative of a Fuji GW690 III. I am currently making a design for a 120 & 35mm film holder roughly based on this design: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3985120/files
However, I am adding an advance mechanism, film cleaning, improved assembly and some other features. The design will be made for 3D-printing "at home". I made a few prototypes, but time is scarce at the moment, so it will be a while until it is finished and ready to be shared.

its a lovely shot. The colours are very well rendered.

FWIW I have seen someone else expand on this design. They have provided for the film advance. But no 120 or film cleaning.

Here is a link:

https://www.kamerakraft.com/film-scanning-carrier

 

[Les Sarile]

First, I scan flat and adjust in post. Then I find adjusting levels in Elements is easier. In Lightroom, I never seem to know which sliders to use to get the same affect. Maybe you can help me on that? Tks.

Me and LR never bonded and initial RAW processing left a lot to he desired. So I got into ACDSee more and it has continued to evolve to the point that I may no longer even need PS.

 

[Les Sarile]

Are you definitely set on a dedicated scanner? I bought an Epson V550 and sold it again to commit to DSLR scanning. The results with my Nikon D850 are just so much better it's incredible. In terms of workflow speed, I think they are comparable. A used Nikon D800 with a macro lens will also set you back less than a decent film scanner.

Overall, the setup is comparable in terms of cost with a flatbed scanning workflow, but in my opinion is much more flexible in terms of film formats. Also, I am icnredibly happy with the results, as the colours also come out a lot nicer than on the Epson in my opinion.

Do you use the D850's color negative conversion?
What's your workflow like and time to process?

 

[Les Sarile]

I strongly second suggestions to consider DSLR scanning. I have spent a lot of money and time on scanners and scanning processes. I lucked into a V700 for $75 from a dentist on craigslist who used it to scan his X-rays. I then lucked into the holy grail of scanners, the Nikon Coolscan 9000ED for $450, from Adorama in "as-is" condition. Fixing it turned out to be as easy as opening up the case and plugging in the cable for one of the limit sensors which had fallen out. I also have a dslr scanning rig set up using my enlarger stand and a $10 light pad that I owned before these other scanners. I use a D5500 with the Nikon 55 f2.8 on it and neg lab pro for color film. I just purchased a 105 f2.8 to see if I can make my setup even better. Usually I take one shot but sometimes I stitch. So what about the results? Can you tell which scanner I used for each of these pictures?

Do you use Vuescan or Nikonscan with the 9000?

 

[jim10219]

I find DSLR scanning easier and quicker than flatbed scanning. I frequently use multiple methods of scanning and no matter what kind of scanning you do, there's always a learning curve. One thing I like about DSLR scanning is not having to mess with the scanner's software. Another I like is immediate feedback. With my scanner, I have to do a scan to make sure everything is in alignment, focus, and the exposure is right, and a scan takes a lot more time than a shutter click.

My personal philosophy is they each excel at something different. Flatbeds are great for large format. You don't need the super high resolution, and you can scan it all in one scan, and still have a pretty high resolution digital image. DSLRs are great for 35mm film. You can get it all in one shot and you get a much higher resolution than with a flatbed. Plus the speed at which you can scan a roll of film is crazy fast compared to other methods. For medium format, I haven't found a great method. Flatbed is nice, but the lack of resolution can sometimes leave you wanting. Plus the time it takes isn't fun (I tend to shoot less frames when shooting sheet film vs. roll film). Also, doing single shot DSLR scans don't give you the resolution you probably expect from medium format. Stitching together multiple shots from a DSLR seems to work best, when it works. Sometimes, especially if there is a lot of empty space like blue skies, or repeating patterns like skyscraper windows, stitching becomes a huge hassle, as you have to do it manually.

But one thing that remains true throughout all of it, is that the quality of the final image has as much or more to do with your proficiency at the methods you choose as it does with the equipment you use. I'm good at Photoshop so I prefer to do all of my editing there. Other people like using Lightroom or even their scanning software to do the majority of the heavy lifting. I know a lot of people prefer to use a color correction plugin for converting negatives like Colorperfect. I find the standard PS curves tool to be quicker, easier to use and gives better results (probably because I've got decades of experience using it).

So my point is, what's easiest and what gives the best results will probably be whatever you've spent the most time learning how to do.

 

[kahlheins]

Do you use the D850's color negative conversion?
What's your workflow like and time to process?

My current workflow is as follows:

1. Cut negatives into strips of 2 for 6x9 or strips of 3 for 6x6
2. Place negatives in Lomography film holder
3. Remove dust with air blower (and sometimes a brush)
4. Place negative holder on Kaiser light table at full brightness
5. Set up Nikon D850 + Tamron 100mm Macro on scanning stand (i use this cheap one: https://www.dold-mechatronik.de/Reprostativ-V5-kit)
6. Dial in Settings, snap the image and double check exposure, removing dust again in between images
7. Repeat until all image strips are scanned
   
8. Load into Lightroom --> wish I could use teathered shooting, by my Lightroom version (6) does not support the D850
9. Quick, almost automated edit with the Negative Lab Pro Plugin

A roll of 120 film takes me about 15 mins I'd say, but there's definitely room for improvement. Once I have finished my new film holder I will probably make a full detailed write-up of the process.

 

[Les Sarile]

1. Set up Nikon D850 + Tamron 100mm Macro on scanning stand (i use this cheap one: https://www.dold-mechatronik.de/Reprostativ-V5-kit).

Do you use the built-in color negative mode in the D850 or just capture as is and convert to positive in post?
Have you compared color conversion from both processes?

 

[wahiba]

I use an Epson V300 at 2400dpi for 35mm and 1200dpi for 120. As it is a 35mm scanner only I have to scan 120 strips twice and then splice them together with Photo Elements 7 panorama feature. So long as i get a small overlap I cannot see the join. Loco was taken on a Rollie35T boat on a Rolliecord Vb both on Rollie Slide film. Probably some of the last of it made. I had the 16 shot adaptor on for this shot, still needed double scan.

 

[kahlheins]

Do you use the built-in color negative mode in the D850 or just capture as is and convert to positive in post?
Have you compared color conversion from both processes?

I have tried the built in process in the D850 but found it to be pretty terrible. The colours were very tinted and not pleasing at all. In my opinion the feature is completely useless to be honest. The plugin beats it by miles. I got a lot of green or magenta casts with the d850 built in conversion.

 

[Les Sarile]

I have tried the built in process in the D850 but found it to be pretty terrible. The colours were very tinted and not pleasing at all. In my opinion the feature is completely useless to be honest. The plugin beats it by miles. I got a lot of green or magenta casts with the d850 built in conversion.

Well that's disappointing. I was hoping they would have implemented their algorithm from Nikonscan.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Do you use Vuescan or Nikonscan with the 9000?

Les, I use Nikon Scan.