Correct way to pronounce "nikon"?

[Photo Engineer]

Nah, I'm happy to credit, regardless.

Anyway, Nikomat (ニコマート) is "Nee-koh-maato".

Unfortunately, my Nikomat, purchased in Tokyo, has "NIKOMAT" in Romaji on the front.

PE

 

[Dan Fromm]

When shopping, say "please sell me one and take my money" in the store's language of choice.

When talking about your gear, pronounce the name as if it were in your native language.

In both cases listeners will understand you.

 

[Oren Grad]

Unfortunately, my Nikomat, purchased in Tokyo, has "NIKOMAT" in Romaji on the front.

Essentially all modern, mass-produced Japanese cameras are branded in romaji, even when intended for the domestic market. Romaji is used so extensively in Japan that I think one could argue that it's the fourth character set, along with kanji, hiragana and katakana. Sure, it's used only in very specific ways, but that's true of, say, katakana as well.

 

[cooltouch]

When I lived in the US I had to get used to Nigh-kon for Nick-on. Knee-sarn for Nissan, Hah-salblad for Hassleblad, Marzda for Mazda, As-a-hi for Ashai, Ad-e-das for Adidas, oh and the best was when my mother in law threatened to kick me in the fanny, in Australia "fanny" describes a woman's genitals!

My dad, who was from Tennessee, talked like that with the 'r' in wash, for example. I always thought it sounded funny. But then I'm from Texas.

Seriously, though, I have a BA and MA in Linguistics, and I find this conversation fascinating. In fact, my "qualifying" language as an Lx student, was Japanese. I studied it for several years, but I've been learning a fair amount just now from you guys.

I'd like to add a few comments regarding Japanese:

Japanese phonology does not contain either the rhotacized 'r' or palatal 'l' found in many Western languages -- and in Chinese, by the way. Many people make the mistake thinking Chinese can't distinguish between the two sounds. They most certainly can. But for Japanese folks, it's a problem. Because neither the 'r' nor the 'l' exist in Japanese, they literally can't hear these sounds -- or to be more exact, they can't hear the difference between them. Phonology is a fascinating subject because it gets into the way the mind processes language sounds, not just the sounds themselves. This situation is far from unique to the Japanese. Chinese carries a group of phonemes that don't exist in English, and as a student of the Chinese language, let me tell you, it is extremely difficult trying to distinguish between these sounds, and then trying to remember when or in which context each is used. Anyway, about the Japanese 'r'. The Japanese 'r' can be best approximated in American English by the middle consonant in the words 'butter' or 'ladder'. That single quick flap is the Japanese 'r'. If an American will take the time to learn this feature, it will go a long way toward making their Japanese more intelligible to speakers of Japanese. I don't know about you Aussies, but in British English this same set of consonants won't work to approximate the Japanese 'r'.

Once one has mastered the Japanese 'r' there's really only one other bit of pronunciation that has to be watched out for. It's called the high back unrounded vowel in linguistics. And it sounds like the 'u' sound in English, except the lips aren't rounded. This vowel is prevalent in Scottish English, by the way. All other phonemes in Japanese exist in English phonology. Which means that, with a bit of practice, it isn't difficult to speak like a native. Most of it is delivery, and the Japanese do have specific habits when it comes to that.

Japanese does not have syllabic emphasis the way many Western languages do. Instead, emphasis is done through gemmination (a $5 lingustics word, meaning 'lengthening'). Each syllable has a specific length, and gemmination is done simply by doubling a syllable's length. However, there are many Japanese words that are naturally gemminated, and in these cases, don't represent any sort of emphasis.

Then there's the matter of elision (another $5 linguistics word, meaning the omission of a sound or syllable when speaking). Two vowels are commonly elided in Japanese speech, the 'i' and 'u' (actually high back unrounded) sounds. But phonological rules are involved also. Basically, they are typically elided when following an unvoiced consonant, like 'k' or 's'. But they're voiced when following voiced consonants. The polite form of excuse me, shitsureishimasu, is actually pronounced shtsreishmas. But even though the vowels are elided, their syllables still get their full time value. So the pronunciation is more accurately written as shhtssreishhmass.

Japanese has two syllabaries, which approximate alphabets, except they're groupings of vowels and consonants. Well, there's a single group of vowels only, plus the lone consonant 'n'. So it isn't entirely correct to state that any Japanese syllable must contain a consonant and a vowel. Each syllabary contains 46 basic characters. The only difference between the two syllabaries is the way the characters are written. Hiragana is the syllabary used for native Japanese words. Katakana is the syllabary most commonly used for foreign words and borrowings, but it is also often used for emphasis of Japanese words, the way we use italics for emphasis.

When the Japanese spell out foreign words, they follow strict phonological rules. I wrote a paper outlining the rules as a student sometime back in the mid-90s. I don't recall all the specifics anymore, but it can get kind of complicated. For example: McDonald's Hamburgers is spelled as makudonarudo hambaagaa. And I have a photo taken of a Tokyo McDonald's to prove it The katakana characters bordered in red spell it out.

As for how Nikon is pronounced, well a linguist will say that it's pronounced however you want to pronounce it. So I think I'll stick with that outlook.

And that's all I have to say about that.

 

[Photo Engineer]

But Coca Cola is still in Kana along with a few others like that.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Michael, as a reading in typical Japanese, I would read and say "hanbaagaa"!

PE

 

[Oren Grad]

...plus the lone consonant 'n'.

...which, as you know but others new to the language won't, is effectively an "m" when it occurs in the middle of a word in front of "m", "p" or "b" sounds. Which is why even in Japan, McDonald's isn't selling "hanburgers".

 

[Photo Engineer]

As I heard it, the value was like "l" and "r" or about between "n" and "m". I learned in Tokyo and continued on Okinawa where the pronunciation was decidedly different as were some of the sentence structures and idioms.

In Tokyo, I learned "aringato goziamasu" but in the South I would hear "arigato gozaimasu". In Fukuoka and on Okinawa, I was told I had a Tokyo accent.

PE

 

[Theo Sulphate]

It is the sound you (might) make when you stub your toe - "ow"

Ah-ha-ha-ha... but it isn't! I suspect your "ow" is not the same as mine. What I mean is, the "ow" that I say is identical to the "ou" sound in my "house", "out", and "about" - - but it's not the same as the Canadian "ou" sound I hear. To me, Canadians say something like "aboot" (not quite that dramatic - there's just a hint of that "oo" sound with the "ou") .

Wish I could get IPA symbols in my post to describe the pronunciation better.

Anyway, I don't say "ow" - I say "vuck!"

 

[MattKing]

Ah-ha-ha-ha... but it isn't! I suspect your "ow" is not the same as mine. What I mean is, the "ow" that I say is identical to the "ou" sound in my "house", "out", and "about" - - but it's not the same as the Canadian "ou" sound I hear. To me, Canadians say something like "aboot" (not quite that dramatic - there's just a hint of that "oo" sound with the "ou") .

Wish I could get IPA symbols in my post to describe the pronunciation better.

Anyway, I don't say "ow" - I say "vuck!"

Actually, that "aboot" thing is quite regional. It is the influence of Newfoundland I think.

 

[Alan Gales]

When I lived in the US I had to get used to Nigh-kon for Nick-on. Knee-sarn for Nissan, Hah-salblad for Hassleblad, Marzda for Mazda, As-a-hi for Ashai, Ad-e-das for Adidas, oh and the best was when my mother in law threatened to kick me in the fanny, in Australia "fanny" describes a woman's genitals!

A very good friend of mine visited Australia. While sitting at the bar, the fellow next to him kept complaining about being "pissed". After a while of this, my friend asked him who he was mad at. The fellow said I'm not mad, I'm just pissed from drinking too much.
Here in the U.S. if you are pissed then you are angry.

 

[Alan Gales]

What is the meaning of the -mat suffix such as in Nikkormat, Yashicamat, Edixamat, Prakticamat?

Mat means less expensive or cheap. If you don't believe me then just ask Matt King. He's cheap.

Alan's are cheap too but I don't think anyone would buy a Nikkoralan.

 

[Sirius Glass]

A very good friend of mine visited Australia. While sitting at the bar, the fellow next to him kept complaining about being "pissed". After a while of this, my friend asked him who he was mad at. The fellow said I'm not mad, I'm just pissed from drinking too much.
Here in the U.S. if you are pissed then you are angry.

We could also discuss the word "stuffed". As an American if one has overeaten in Australia, do not stay that "I am stuffed." as that statement will be interpreted as something very different.

 

[Helios 1984]

We could also discuss the word "stuffed". As an American if one has overeaten in Australia, do not stay that "I am stuffed." as that statement will be interpreted as something very different.

Crickey!

 

[wiltw]

correct pronunciation is so dependent upon the location of who is speaking the name...

• Pare-iss in USA
• Pa-Ree in France

...so is it Nigh-kon, or NEE-kown

 

[Chan Tran]

You can pronounce it any way you want and I believe Nikon accepts different ways people pronounce their brand. However, I believe when Nikon picked the name Nikon for their brand they intended for it to be pronounced Nee Kon.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

... Romaji is used so extensively in Japan that I think one could argue that it's the fourth character set...

Long ago there was a website that illustrated how some young Japanese were a bit enamored with Western words and writing. As an example, the site featured dozens of products from simple carry-bags to clothing which had imprinted random and amusing words such as "palm sweat".

 

[Truzi]

It is the sound you (might) make when you stub your toe - "ow"

The sound I make when stubbing my toe has a different vowel.

 

[Oren Grad]

Long ago there was a website that illustrated how some young Japanese were a bit enamored with Western words and writing. As an example, the site featured dozens of products from simple carry-bags to clothing which had imprinted random and amusing words such as "palm sweat".

Yes... I have a photo book called "Japlish" by Sally Larsen, documenting strange words worn by young people in the streets. (Alas, as photographs they're... meh.) And if you do an image search for "Japlish" on the web, you'll find a bunch of examples.

 

[Willy T]

...I have always heard that... AGFA was the first four letters of A.G. Farben, the company that owned it and many other businesses

I'd heard that it is an abbreviation the company's original full name (founded in the 19th century as a maker of dyes) - Aktiengesellschaft für Anilinfabrikation ('Corporation for Aniline Manufacture'). Today, Agfa-Gevaert NV, a Belgian-German company based in Belgium.

 

[awty]

We could also discuss the word "stuffed". As an American if one has overeaten in Australia, do not stay that "I am stuffed." as that statement will be interpreted as something very different.

Yes the correct term would be "as full as a goog" I love colloquialisms.

 

[markbau]

Yes the correct term would be "as full as a goog" I love colloquialisms.

Other Australian terms for being full from over eating are:
As full as a fat lady's shoe
As full as a state school (state schools are usually chronically overcrowded)

 

[cooltouch]

As I heard it, the value was like "l" and "r" or about between "n" and "m". I learned in Tokyo and continued on Okinawa where the pronunciation was decidedly different as were some of the sentence structures and idioms.

In Tokyo, I learned "aringato goziamasu" but in the South I would hear "arigato gozaimasu". In Fukuoka and on Okinawa, I was told I had a Tokyo accent.

Okinawa is so far removed from even mainland Japan that the Okinawans speak their own dialect, from what I've been told.

As for the Tokyo dialect, you don't have to travel very far south to be away from its pronunciation peculiarities. I've talked with people from Osaka who think that those folks from Tokyo sound whimpy, with all the /ng/ sounds they hang onto everything. Fortunately, none of my Japanese instructors pushed the Tokyo dialect in their teachings, so I never learned to add the nasal to words like 'arigato.' I was discussing this with a woman from Japan at a linguistics conference, and she told me that she pronounced the honorific '-san' as '-sang'. That really surprised me. But then she was from Tokyo, so I guess I really shouldn't have been that surprised.

Oh, and what Oren said about 'n' becoming an 'm' before labial consonants. We Americans even tend to do the same thing in rapid vernacular. For example, the statement, "He's still in bed," if spelled out using strict IPA will more often than not show the speaker using an 'm' instead of an 'n' before the 'b'. This is a perfectly natural situation where the articulators are after a comfortable sort of equilibrium. However, I can't speak to the hypercorrect pronunciation often used by the Brits, although they have their own screwy pronunciations that can be hard to predict.

Once again, regarding the pronunciation of Nikon, it only stands to reason that the people at Nippon Kogaku KK, when creating the trade name Nikon, expected it to be pronounced Knee Cone. Because that's their phonology. They had no way of knowing that American English spelling and pronunciation rules usually indicate the diphthongization of the first vowel and the shortening of the last one. But I think that, to their credit, they've adopted the correct stance that basically people can pronounce it however they wish -- as long as they buy Nikon, of course!

So, I wonder why is it that folks don't make a similar big deal over the way we've changed the pronunciation of Canon, from 'kah-noan' to 'kyæ-none'. That funny looking ae symbol is called the 'a-e digraph' and is the sound found in the American pronunciation of the word 'graph' for example -- or 'flag', which I believe the Brits pronounce the same as we do. I think it can be argued that the way we Americans pronounce Canon is just as big of a difference as what we've done with Nikon. Not only did we change both vowels, but we added the palatal 'y' to boot.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

...
we added the palatal 'y' to boot.

I don't think I hear that palatal-y in "Canon", unless I don't realize it.

Could you give an example of two words having the same consonant+vowel, but a palatial-y is present in one and not the other?

 

[Cholentpot]

Paul Simon pronounced it both ways so that's good enough for me.