copal cocking problem

[shutterfinger]

Will the "press to focus" open and close the shutter blades?

 

[CatLABS]

Yes the preview is closed, although it does seem like it doesn't ,move as freely as it should so there may be something going on with it. Or I might be imagining it.

That factoid in bold is very helpful. It does seem to be in T mode because when I try to cock it and then fire it, I have to fire it twice for everything to release. That was puzzling me. But the diaphragm never opens when the shutter is fired, regardless. But maybe it is cocking after all, at least partly.

If the shutter fires, but never opens, there is something wrong in the mechanism.
I do not off the top of my head remember what would cause this though i have seen it happen.
Most likely it will need to be sent for service.

Note however, that in most cases it most likely cheaper to buy another shutter (with or without glass) and transfer the aperture scale over.

 

[Wayne]

Will the "press to focus" open and close the shutter blades?

The what?

 

[Wayne]

A butter knife can be used to adjust any camera a technician will charge you $10 to fix.
A technician will charge you $30 to repair any camera adjusted with a butter knife.
-adapted from Ted Orland's Compendium of Photographic Truths

Is it free to adjust the technician with the butter knife?

 

[shutterfinger]

The what?

The doohickey you operate to open the shutter blades for focusing/image viewing on the ground glass without using B or T.
See page 7 of http://www.alpa.ch/dms/support/repair-and-service/copal-0-1-manual/copal_0.pdf

 

[BrianShaw]

Ah, the thingamabob?

 

[Wayne]

It has a preview lever, which does open and close the shutter normally. And contrary to what I said in post 30 it seems perfectly fine.

i do see something that has me suspicious a spring might have broke, but it's kind of hard to describe. I'll see if i can get a picture

 

[Wayne]

It has a preview lever, which does open and close the shutter normally. And contrary to what I said in post 30 it seems perfectly fine.

i do see something that has me suspicious a spring might have broke, but it's kind of hard to describe. I'll see if i can get a picture

ehh...once I took the pic and enlarged it I noticed it isn't a broken spring at all, it's a lever. But for the advancement of science, here is the inside of a Copal #1

 

[CatLABS]

Everything seems to be in order, though that does not say much.
If you can, post a short video of the cocking and firing of the shutter.

 

[Wayne]

I just shot one but don't know how to post it. I don't want to join youtube, then I'd have to buy an ipad and a smartphone join farcebook and it could quickly escalate out of control

 

[shutterfinger]

If you already have a gmail account then you have access to upload to you tube.

your photo edited:

The black lever at A looks like it should fit into the metal lever at the end of the delay mechanism, does it in the released position? I'm assuming this is the set/cocked position.
The spring at B appears to be not connected to anything, is it? Should it be against the post on the setting lock lever connection the release lever to the setting lever?
I would rather see a picture from the mid point between the setting lever and release lever in both the set and released positions.
If you turn it over and tap it against your open palm does anything fall out?

 

[Wayne]

If you already have a gmail account then you have access to upload to you tube.

your photo edited:

The black lever at A looks like it should fit into the metal lever at the end of the delay mechanism, does it in the released position? I'm assuming this is the set/cocked position.
The spring at B appears to be not connected to anything, is it? Should it be against the post on the setting lock lever connection the release lever to the setting lever?
I would rather see a picture from the mid point between the setting lever and release lever in both the set and released positions.
If you turn it over and tap it against your open palm does anything fall out?

I don't recall whether that still was taken with it cocked or not. The black(ened) lever at A engages with the preview lever though; it doesn't move when the shutter is cocked or released. When you open the preview the inner end of that lever rotates left, moving the post into the half-round cutout visible to its left. That post opens the shutter when pushed left.

the spring at B is bent at a right angle (hard to see even in hand) and hooks over the top of the concavity in that lever/arm. It's under tension.

I can take another picture tomorrow, but nothing has fallen out.

 

[Wayne]

I'll get a gmail account when google freezes over.

 

[Wayne]

Note however, that in most cases it most likely cheaper to buy another shutter (with or without glass) and transfer the aperture scale over.

This is starting to look like a good idea...

 

[shutterfinger]

Originally Posted by CatLABS (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Note however, that in most cases it most likely cheaper to buy another shutter (with or without glass) and transfer the aperture scale over.
This is starting to look like a good idea...

Look at the prices for new Copal shutters. SKGrimes has them for $496-$1190. B&H $426-$1252.95.

 

[CatLABS]

Look at the prices for new Copal shutters. SKGrimes has them for $496-$1190. B&H $426-$1252.95.

I did not say new. I said another. Copal shutter can be had for 100$ (with some lenses attached in most cases).
Neither grimes nor BH actually have new copal shutters in stock, as they are no longer made and #1 stocks have been long exhausted.

When you get a new shutter, and still waiting for google to freeze over, please feel free to let me know, i will buy the defective shutter from you.

 

[Wayne]

OK deal, I'll sell you this when google freezes over.

 

[Wayne]

here's a link to the poor quality video-but it probably shows everything that can be seen


[video]http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=nvlS1L5AwLPlJW2zL5Goioh4l5k2TGxc# .VMBcDqy23y0[/video]

 

[CatLABS]

In this video, you are not cocking the shutter all the way.
If the lever does not advance further then you show in the video, there is something wrong with the cocking lever nothing more.

In any case i see nothing else obvious.

 

[Wayne]

Or maybe it's just not advancing what its supposed to advance as far as it should? That's as far as the lever moves, and it appears to me doing this in hand, that's as far as it's intended to move. Just a couple more millimeters and it would contact the end of the slit in the housing that it moves through. You can see it approaching that black part of the otherwise shiny metallic rim-that's the end of the slit.

 

[gone]

All this talk about thingamabobs and doohickeys (I just discovered that they actually do have spell ck for those words) has gotten far beyond my level of technical expertise. Basically, if I can't see what the trouble is after drenching something w/ lighter fluid and giving it a few sharp raps on the counter top, there's only one thing left....bring out the cigarette lighter. It won't fix the problem, but it will end my endless tinkering w/ it, and I like watching a small flame burn. As does the cat. So it's basically cheap entertainment value at that point.

 

[CatLABS]

indeed.

The level should move all the way t where it touches the housing on the outside. Might be a cam missing. did you loose any parts?

Its time for service or another shutter...

 

[shutterfinger]

If I had it in my possession I could figure out what was sticking, out of position, or broken. It seems strange that a shutter put away working would not work several years latter unless something was stuck, it received a hard shock knocking a piece out of position or an attempt to operate it with the preview lever part way set caused it to be forced breaking something. Being no parts fell out I suspect something is stuck. I have encountered several shutters where no amount of any degreaser or soak time would have freed it up, they had to be disassembled and the dried grease/oil scraped off. The grease used in shutters is a light weight grease such as white lithium, when the grease dries out from age it becomes like axle grease or hard crud depending on age. Only disassembly and careful cleaning of the parts will get it out.

 

[Wayne]

I have only used it very rarely in the years I've had it but I had just shot at least a half dozen negatives one recent afternoon. But I barely got it cocked for the last one. I didn't force it, I just had to try several times before it cocked. And the next time it wouldn't.

I looked at my other No 1 and it does seem like the lever isn't going as far as it';s supposed to like Catlabs says. I may designate it a sacrificial shutter and monkey with it some more to learn something about shutters, or I may just buy a new used one and go shooting. If I do the former, I'm sure I'll be back...

 

[shutterfinger]

Oil or grease turned to glue. Take a picture before and after removing a part and verify the before shows the parts position clearly before removing it.
Start with the cocking/setting mechanism. You can always use the good shutter as a reference by removing its top plate and speed ring but keep its parts separate from the other one and don't go further than the speed ring in disassembly.