copal cocking problem

Wayne · Jan 12, 2015

I finally start using my 305 G Claron that I've had for 10 years, and wouldn't you know it-the cocking lever doesn't want to lock into the cocked position. Please tell me this is something I can easily fix myself with no actual shutter repair skills. And no money.

summicron1 · Jan 13, 2015

well, there's always magic incantations, I guess.

Maybe something is stiff. Put a bad movie on, sit down and work it back and forth a bit and see if it loosens up.

As to other repairs ...

It depends on how brave you are if you wanna try fixing it urself. You could take the front lens elements out (the whole section unscrews) and then take the faceplate off the shutter and see if a little cleaner on the little lever inside that is supposed to shift into place to lock it needs cleaning or something.

Worst case scenario, you can't see anything obvious, suck it up and send it off to be serviced. Ramen makes a very good meal and you've been meaning to lose weight anyway.

Oren Grad · Jan 13, 2015

On Copal shutters, the cocking lever isn't supposed to "lock into the cocked position". There is no "cocked position". It's normal behavior for the lever to fall back into its resting position after you've heard the little click indicating that you've cocked the shutter.

BrianShaw · Jan 13, 2015

Q to OP: does the shutter cock and release, or not? Copal cocking lever does not stay in cocked position as previously mentioned by Oren.

Wayne · Jan 13, 2015

Good lord. The lever moves normally, but doesn't cock the shutter. It was working fine, now it isn't.

dpurdy · Jan 13, 2015

You don't by any chance have a cable release in place that is accidentally in the locked in position. That will definitely cause what you describe.
Dennis

Wayne · Jan 13, 2015

shutterfinger · Jan 13, 2015

The Copal shutter has a center ring that that holds the face plate in position and is secured by extremely small retainer screw. Once the screw and ring are removed the face plate lifts off BUT the under side has slots for the mechanism that have to be aligned perfectly for the shutter to operate and if the center ring is over tightened it will cause the speeds to be off.
Is the face plate loose?

Wayne · Jan 13, 2015

The face plate is not loose. I tried the naptha trick and haven't had any luck. I'm thinking that face plate has to come off, but I'm not seeing the screw of which you speak. Lack of money trumps lack of skill, so I think I'm going in...

shutterfinger · Jan 14, 2015

can you post a picture of the shutter with the front lens cell removed?

Wayne · Jan 14, 2015

N`ot right now I cant. There is a screw there, if that's what you're getting at. I found this high speed breakdon of a Copal 0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-_eIu-eUVU

in which he appears to remove that screw and then the silver ring and then the face plate.

John Koehrer · Jan 14, 2015

It's about .5mm at the top of the scalloped ring. It's a locking screw for the ring.

Wayne · Jan 14, 2015

Hmm..well how do you unlock it? I tried loosening it but even though it turns it doesn't come out and neither does the scalloped ring.

Wayne · Jan 14, 2015

ahh...the ring unscrews. Got it. Now the real trouble begins

Wayne · Jan 14, 2015

Ok, I'm in! And...I don't know wtf I'm looking for. Fortunately I found a camera repair shop in this town that isn't my own, so maybe I'll get some cheap friendly advice there

Wayne · Jan 15, 2015

haha, That was funny APUGuser.

I'm perfectly willing to study up on it now, its not like I've harmed it in any way and I thought the problem might be obvious once I got it open. And it wasn't doing me any good when it didn't work. But the problem isn't obvious, and I haven't found a diagrammatic explanations of the innards. I need to know what should be happening to cock it, that isn't. Then maybe I can see why it isn't.

shutterfinger · Jan 15, 2015

Once the Naphtha effects have dissipated from your person then start your shutter repair understanding here:
http://pheugo.com/cameras/index.php?page=default&WEBMGR=a63ba76bbcfd6d67a3e9d62fd389f975
There is a Copal 4 speed and a MXV.
All makes of shutters:
Aperture at the rear/bottom of the shutter case requiring full teardown of the shutter to access.
Shutter blades and controller immediately above the aperture, usually mounted on the bottom/back side of the main plate.
Main plate, top side: Setting mechanism; release mechanism, includes bulb and time levers; retarding mechanism; flash sync; self timer.
Speed setting ring.
Front plate.
Springs will fly out of some makes of shutters if operated with the front plate off, I think it is safe to set and release a Copal with the face plate off but will not swear to it.
Operate the setting lever observing what it contacts or comes close to contacting. Operate the release lever observing what levers it contacts and moves.
Look for loose hair pin type springs that are loose on a shaft, they should have some tension at a static state (shutter not set).
Cocking/setting spring should be a high tension expansion spring 1/2 to 3/4 inch long. The Copal MXV in the above link shows the setting spring between the delay mechanism and the center of the shutter housing in photo#3.
Do Not disassemble the delay mechanism. Do try to turn the gears a little or move its levers to verify it is not jammed or locked by another component.
Use a macro capable P&S (digital are best) and take pictures of the shutter as you remove each part to make reassembly easier.
Get a can of CRC QD Electronic Cleaner available at auto parts stores ( http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d...ap?ck=Search_N0439_-1_2743&pt=N0439&ppt=C0090 ), hardware stores and similar businesses. Safe on plastics so you can spray it into a shutter without worry of doing harm and flush the shutter while open. I do so over a container with a sealing lid so that I can put parts and sub assemblies it it for soaking with the lid on so that it does not evaporate. The CRC QD Cleaner is flammable but not as toxic as Naphtha.

Wayne · Jan 15, 2015

I don't think I trust myself to get too far into this. I can't seem to find what should be doing something but isn't, so I've probably reached the point where lack of experience trumps lack of money.

BrianShaw · Jan 16, 2015

Good judgment, Wayne. When you saved up some money there are several reliable places to get that shutter professionally overhauled.

pgomena · Jan 17, 2015

A butter knife can be used to adjust any camera a technician will charge you $10 to fix.
A technician will charge you $30 to repair any camera adjusted with a butter knife.
-adapted from Ted Orland's Compendium of Photographic Truths

John Koehrer · Jan 17, 2015

^^^^^^^^^Pay 'em for what they know, not what they do!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ari · Jan 18, 2015

John Koehrer said:
^^^^^^^^^Pay 'em for what they know, not what they do!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I thought it was the other way around!

CatLABS · Jan 18, 2015

Have you made sure the preview lever is all way in the closed position?
Also - it is possible the shutter is cocked, but seized, try moving the speed dial to release it, though if you have already taken the faceplate and speed ring cover off that should have already corrected it self.

If the faceplate is off - you can see if the lever is cocking the shutter, and you can release it (without the faceplate in place the shutter will fire in T mode).

Check those things and please post a photo of the shutter in question - Copal shutter rarely if ever fail unless they are busted in half, literally.

John Koehrer · Jan 18, 2015

Ari said:
I thought it was the other way around!

I'd be happy to give you a substantial discount if you don't mind my having no idea what I'm doing.

Ever notice the hourly rates at a service station?

$65.00 hr

$105.00 hr if you watch

$200.00 hr if you help.

Wayne · Jan 18, 2015

CatLABS said:
Have you made sure the preview lever is all way in the closed position?
Also - it is possible the shutter is cocked, but seized, try moving the speed dial to release it, though if you have already taken the faceplate and speed ring cover off that should have already corrected it self.

If the faceplate is off - you can see if the lever is cocking the shutter, and you can release it (without the faceplate in place the shutter will fire in T mode).

Check those things and please post a photo of the shutter in question - Copal shutter rarely if ever fail unless they are busted in half, literally.

Yes the preview is closed, although it does seem like it doesn't ,move as freely as it should so there may be something going on with it. Or I might be imagining it.

That factoid in bold is very helpful. It does seem to be in T mode because when I try to cock it and then fire it, I have to fire it twice for everything to release. That was puzzling me. But the diaphragm never opens when the shutter is fired, regardless. But maybe it is cocking after all, at least partly.

copal cocking problem

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