Conventions for indicating which film holders have film?

Graham06 · Mar 11, 2022

Is there any convention for indicating the state of a frame in a film holder?

Frame is empty: angled holding lug is open. but which one? left seems most natural.

Frame has unexposed film: left lug when holder is facing you is locked. clear or unmarked side of the slide is up

Frame has exposed film: left lug is locked. dark side of frame is inserted ( have seen some slides with a handy "exposed" label)

Never open a locked frame in light: your past self might have helpfully loaded up some holders.

How do you identify each frame? number each frame ( 2 per holder) in your fleet of holders. you'll probably take a subset out on a trip. shoot them in increasing order. If you have different films or developing steps, I guess a notebook will help. what does it have in it? A set I have just bought had white chalk or crayon on the exposed side describing the shot.

I guess it doesn't really matter what conventions people other than I have, only that I have conventions that work for me, but if there are common conventions I'd like to follow them. Perhaps you have workflow steps that make your life easier or reduce mistakes.

abruzzi · Mar 11, 2022

No point in following convention, just do what works for you. For me, white/silver sice of the DS for unexposed film, the black side for exposed film. I don't have to worry about indicating unloaded because I never unload half of a holder, and when I unload the holder, it's stored in my darkroom, not anywhere near the camera. I'd also say that trying to indicate with those little retaining pins seems very likely to cause issues. Mine tend to move around when I reach my hand in the bag to grab something.

I don't worry about identifying specific frames.

AgX · Mar 11, 2022

A convention made sense in the long past when there were chances that people changed between studios and otherwise had to learn again what procedure/markings a certain studio followed. But actually I do not know of such convention even in the past.

I myself contemplated what makes sense to me. And this is contrary to what Abruzzi explained above. For me black=unexposed, white=exposed makes more sense. But then white is related to virginity, what again leads one to unexposed film...

bdial · Mar 11, 2022

My convention is pretty much abruzzi’s.
If I need to identify what particular film is in a holder, I usually label it with a piece of masking tape.
ID’ing specific holders is handy sometimes, if you need to find a light leak or something, but it’s not a problem I’ve needed to solve, so I don’t. I’m also not a zone system user, so every sheet gets the same processing.

We could do a whole thread on how to relate white or black to exposed or unexposed.

Don_ih · Mar 11, 2022

Take only full film holders with you. Never have an empty one in your bag or box. One side of the film slide has bumps (or notches). If those are facing out, it means the film is unexposed. When you expose film, flip the slide so the bumps face in. Always lock the slide.

AgX · Mar 11, 2022

Don Heisz said:
One side of the film slide has bumps (or notches). If those are facing out, it means the film is unexposed.

Is this so?
I guess this has to be discussed...

Nitroplait · Mar 11, 2022

Not convention, but my method:
White side out: unexposed.
The twisting locks: no meaning, just extra insurance for transport.
Film type indicated with masking tape: no masking tape = no film inside. The masking tape changes position depending on whether film is exposed or not. It provides extra assurance, just in case I reinserted the darkslide wrong.
Each filmholder has a number and the two sides are differentiated by A and B, for example 12A.
I write down the holder number/side with the exposure/location data I jot down anyway for each exposure.
The notes includes a brief description or quick drawing of the image so I can fairly easily backtrack a developed sheet to the specific holder and side - it may help me troubleshoot light leaks.

Besk · Mar 11, 2022

I keep each holder in its own plastic bag.
If there is no film in the holder there may be some merit in simply not having the darkslide in the holder - but in the plastic bag.

Nodda Duma · Mar 11, 2022

This is exactly why I put loaded plate indicators on ChromaGraphica Dry Plate holders. Because I couldn’t devise a system that accommodated my non-creature of habit routine.

I *think* Linhoff introduced a feature on some version of their sheet/plate holders to indicate when sheet film was loaded.

Don_ih · Mar 11, 2022

AgX said:
Is this so?
I guess this has to be discussed...

That's how you know which side to have facing out in the dark. That's also how you tell which side has an exposed sheet in the dark.

Rick A · Mar 11, 2022

White side of DS showing means unexposed film. Black side showing plus white adhesive tape on cartridge with frame number and developing instructions (N, N-1, N+1, etc) for exposed film. Black side of DS showing and no tape means empty side. I always place the side up on the counter that I am going to load for processing.

gone · Mar 11, 2022

Don Heisz said:
Take only full film holders with you. Never have an empty one in your bag or box. One side of the film slide has bumps (or notches). If those are facing out, it means the film is unexposed. When you expose film, flip the slide so the bumps face in. Always lock the slide.

Well! That's squashed several pages of mysterious, illusory and contradictory discussion on this topic. Sooner or later someone always shows up w/ the goods here, I'm surprised to see it happen so soon. Thanks!

AgX · Mar 11, 2022

Don Heisz said:
That's how you know which side to have facing out in the dark. That's also how you tell which side has an exposed sheet in the dark.

This is not the point here but instead what mark indicates what.

Let's just say, there is no convention. Unless someone comes up saying that it was put as a rule in several textbooks, taught at academies and so on.
And as the discussion so far showed, what seems logic to one, just seems not to another.

Don_ih · Mar 11, 2022

AgX said:
This is not the point here but instead what mark indicates what.

Let's just say, there is no convention. Unless someone comes up saying that it was put as a rule in several textbooks, taught at academies and so on.
And as the discussion so far showed, what seems logic to one, just seems not to another.

The bumps/notches are on the silver side of the holder. The following is from the Riteway film holder manual:

Tel · Mar 11, 2022

AgX said:
A convention made sense in the long past when there were chances that people changed between studios and otherwise had to learn again what procedure/markings a certain studio followed. But actually I do not know of such convention even in the past.

I myself contemplated what makes sense to me. And this is contrary to what Abruzzi explained above. For me black=unexposed, white=exposed makes more sense. But then white is related to virginity, what again leads one to unexposed film...

I adopted the black for unexposed, white for exposed logic too. It makes sense to me, and since I'm the only one handling the holders it works. When I need to label something--what film is in a holder, for example--I use 1/2-inch white paper tape and write the information with a sharpie and stick it to the "handle" part of the holder. And I never mix different films in the same holder, just in case I might forget in the heat of the moment. To be safe, I also write "exposed" on the top of the dark slide. I also contemplated stencilling "exposed" on the face of the dark slides, like the manufactirers did many years ago with some holders. Some day if I'm really bored I might do that...

bdial · Mar 11, 2022

Nodda Duma said:
I *think* Linhoff introduced a feature on some version of their sheet/plate holders to indicate when sheet film was loaded.

The lever that ejects the sheet can be used in that way, if it stops, the holder has film, if it travels the full length of the slot, the holder is empty.
With the spring loaded pressure plate in the Linhof holders, the "shake" method to determine if the holder has film isn't quite reliable.

Nicholas Lindan · Mar 11, 2022

There is no need to differentiate between exposed and unloaded - in each case you don't take a picture on that side of the holder. Part loaded holders can be dealt with in the darkroom.

I only flip the slides to metal/white when loading film. I flip them to black after taking the picture. The holders stay black until new film is loaded. After removing the exposed film the empty holders go in a box with the other empties.

Alan Edward Klein · Mar 11, 2022

AgX said:
A convention made sense in the long past when there were chances that people changed between studios and otherwise had to learn again what procedure/markings a certain studio followed. But actually I do not know of such convention even in the past.

I myself contemplated what makes sense to me. And this is contrary to what Abruzzi explained above. For me black=unexposed, white=exposed makes more sense. But then white is related to virginity, what again leads one to unexposed film...

Could it be that white could indicate the type of film? So it would follow that white means unexposed.

Alan Edward Klein · Mar 11, 2022

I use these removable labels to identify what type of film I have in holder. I use 1/2" but they come in other sizes as well.
Check on the right. They'll send you a swatch sheet for free to try out. Note the different sizes on the right side as well.
https://www.chromalabel.com/products/1-2-inch-dot-labels-assorted-color-pack

AgX · Mar 11, 2022

Some photographers indeed wrote the type of film onto those white patches. In those cases it made sense that these sides up marked the unexposed film.

Good point, I had to erase, with effort, such inscriptions on several holders I acquired from one source.

Ian Grant · Mar 11, 2022

abruzzi said:
No point in following convention, just do what works for you. For me, white/silver sice of the DS for unexposed film, the black side for exposed film. I don't have to worry about indicating unloaded because I never unload half of a holder, and when I unload the holder, it's stored in my darkroom, not anywhere near the camera. I'd also say that trying to indicate with those little retaining pins seems very likely to cause issues. Mine tend to move around when I reach my hand in the bag to grab something.

I don't worry about identifying specific frames.

It's extremely important to follow convention, which is as you say White/Silver side is unexposed, black exposed. The reason it's important, is if you are working with someone else, I had a shot ruined by someone not understanding the convention and double exposing a sheet, it was something I couldn't re-shoot.. There had to be a convention where photographers often used freelance assistants, or a colour lab might reload DDS for a client.

Ian

AgX · Mar 11, 2022

Ian, what convention?

I do not remember ever having come such convention across. Well, I could go now through textbooks and so, but maybe you will fresh up my memory.

RalphLambrecht · Mar 11, 2022

Graham06 said:
Is there any convention for indicating the state of a frame in a film holder?

Frame is empty: angled holding lug is open. but which one? left seems most natural.

Frame has unexposed film: left lug when holder is facing you is locked. clear or unmarked side of the slide is up

Frame has exposed film: left lug is locked. dark side of frame is inserted ( have seen some slides with a handy "exposed" label)

Never open a locked frame in light: your past self might have helpfully loaded up some holders.

How do you identify each frame? number each frame ( 2 per holder) in your fleet of holders. you'll probably take a subset out on a trip. shoot them in increasing order. If you have different films or developing steps, I guess a notebook will help. what does it have in it? A set I have just bought had white chalk or crayon on the exposed side describing the shot.

I guess it doesn't really matter what conventions people other than I have, only that I have conventions that work for me, but if there are common conventions I'd like to follow them. Perhaps you have workflow steps that make your life easier or reduce mistakes.

Well... this is my convention:

RalphLambrecht · Mar 11, 2022

You can try this if you like it:

Bob S · Mar 11, 2022

Nodda Duma said:
This is exactly why I put loaded plate indicators on ChromaGraphica Dry Plate holders. Because I couldn’t devise a system that accommodated my non-creature of habit routine.

I *think* Linhoff introduced a feature on some version of their sheet/plate holders to indicate when sheet film was loaded.

LInhof offered their 23 and 45 sheet film holders and their sheet film/glass plate holders friskit numbered from 1 to 12. They were also available without the friskit numbers.

Conventions for indicating which film holders have film?

Graham06

abruzzi

AgX

bdial

Don_ih

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Nitroplait

Besk

Nodda Duma

Don_ih

Rick A

gone

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Tel

bdial

Nicholas Lindan

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Alan Edward Klein

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AgX

Ian Grant

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Conventions for indicating which film holders have film?

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