controling the brown tone in double toning

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During the weekend I did some darkroom sniffing after what it seems eternity. It was fun experience. After that I tried double selenium/brown toning. The prints came out a bit too brown, and here is my question: I made weak solution of selenium (1:15 Kodak's rapid toner) and standard Viradon solution (1:24 if I remember correctly). The prints were 3-4 minutes in selenium and 1-1.5 minutes in brown. After brown toning I quickly wash them with shower and emidiately put them in Hypo. Now can you suggest me what to do next time to get more black and less brown image? Since Ed Bufaloe in his article wrote that selenium isn't critical, I guess that I shall decrease concentration of Viradon, but since I toned prints in Viradon for only 1 minute and just splash them with water on both sides, I have no idea what else to do. Perhaps increase the concentration of selenium :confused:?

Marko
 

ann

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try a "stop bath" after the brown toner. It will continue to tone while washing.
a 10% sulfite bath, a strong HCA will do the trick.
 
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Thnak you Ann!

Perhaps my Hypo wasn't strong enough. I'll try to increase it next time. You said 10%? Uf, that's high. Tetenal recomend 1:400 ratio!

Marko
 

titrisol

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Which paper were you using Marko?
There are some papers that are less sensitive to brown toner.
Also, as ann suggested keep a tray with HCA handy, and dip your prints in it after viradon.
 
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marko_trebusak
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I'm using Ilford Multigrade FB Warmtone. And as I wrote in my original message, I cleaned them quickly with shower, just to remove yellow/orange tint of Viradon from both sides of paper, and diped the print immediately in Hypo.

Marko
 

skahde

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Two-step brown toning may work better for you. With the Kodak Sepia-Toner you can use a diluted bleach to fine-tune the toning. The bleaching is still reversabel by redevelopment unless the shett is tranferred to the toning-bath. Toning is always done to completion and almost (!) exclusively affects the bleached areas. No post-toning in the wash.

The results look different compared to direct toning, though, highlights may aquire a yellowish cast.

Stefan
 

Ole

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marko_trebusak said:
Thnak you Ann!

Perhaps my Hypo wasn't strong enough. I'll try to increase it next time. You said 10%? Uf, that's high. Tetenal recomend 1:400 ratio!

Tetenal "Lavaquick" (isn't that the name?) is NOT sulfite!

"Hypo" really means thiosulfate, many use it to mean "hypo eliminator". Kodak's HCA (Hypo Clearing Agent) is mostly sodium sulfite.

To stop the action of Viradon, a bath in strong sulfite works. Otherwise it will continue to tone in the wash, and may have a whitish veil of sulfur on the surface.

Viradon (and other polysulfide toners) works stronger in high dilution - as when you are washing 4 8x10" prints in one liter of water. Sulfite is highly recommended to bring it under control, and for repeatable results.
 

Blighty

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Marko,
Is your Viradon diluted sufficiently? I'm sure it should be diluted 1:50 (that's what it says on Agfa's european packaging). I've found that, even at 1:50, Viradon tones Multigrade FB warm like the clappers. It really does take some practise to know when to snatch the print from the toner. Regards, Blighty
 
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