Contax SLR buying advice wanted

[RattyMouse]

It's no good targetting some of the best quality lenses on the market in their day and then claiming they are expensive. You get what you pay for. If you want the best then you have to pay for it. If you want cheap then buy the tokina or other equivalents which ain't so bad but just don't have the branding you are looking for.

What I'm targeting is f/2, not a price point. The use of the word "expensive" was an observation, not a complaint.

 

[RattyMouse]

So this weekend I was at the camera mall, looking for what is on offer in the way of Contax SLR's. I visited a half dozen or so shops and found 8-10 Contax RTS III's, where the prices seemed to be in the $700 range or so. I saw many Contax ST's, priced around $400 or so. I saw a bunch of the numbered model SLR's but those are not interesting to me. Finally, I saw one Aria and a bunch of S2's and S2B's. The S2 is a noticeably smaller camera than the ST.

As far as lenses go, I saw 60-75 lenses, pretty much the whole line I think, even the telephotos. It was the Contax lenses that gave me reason to pause. I found that the lenses are backwards! The focus and aperture ranges are set to the opposite direction than my Nikon F and Fuji rangefinder lenses turn. I'm not 100% sure how I will like handling lenses that rotate in the opposite direction than what I am used to.

Now I have to think about that for awhile......

 

[ContaxRTSFundus]

Sugaya shutters for RTS and FR/FR1

I hope you can clarify the characteristic of the RTS shutter as compared to the Yashica FR that I have. The shutter is just an electronic on/off switch. There is no resistance - no "half press" to meter. TIA.

Hi - in terms of firing the shutter, they are identical; there is no half-press to meter.

On the RTS, there is a metering button on the front of the body (it falls perfectly to hand when shooting) and of course, on the FR, there is the switch on the back-plate to activate the meter. The reason that there is no 'half-press' is because the speed of shutter activation was a selling point of the Contax Real Time System and the same applied to the Yashica FR series too. It was one of the reasons I opted for the Contax RTS because in sport, any delay in firing the shutter could miss the vital moment and with a throw of under 0.7mm to activate, you were more likely to catch the image; a further benefit of the tiny movement of the shutter release was that it reduced the likelihood of camera shake.

These days, we are all used to the 'half-press preview' action of shutter switches and I do find them very useful. However, for such a responsive electronic shutter release as found in the RTS/FR, a half-press could never be an option. I never found it a problem although I do find the switch on the FR/FR1 a little less convenient than the front button on the Contax. Enjoy your FR - it's a lovely camera and solidly built. The actual shutter on the FR is a cut-down Sugaya type similar to the one in the RTS and the FR1 has the same shutter as its more expensive cousin but detuned to a top speed of 1:1000. It's amazing how accurate they remain after 35-40 years of use!

 

[Les Sarile]

Thanks for confirming that ContaxRTSFundus. I am sure it is just a matter of getting used to it but unfortunately it is the only camera in my collection that has this feature so I am so used trying to half press it to meter the scene since it is not autoexpose capable!

 

[ContaxRTSFundus]

S2 vs S2b...

So this weekend I was at the camera mall, looking for what is on offer in the way of Contax SLR's. I visited a half dozen or so shops and found 8-10 Contax RTS III's, where the prices seemed to be in the $700 range or so. I saw many Contax ST's, priced around $400 or so. I saw a bunch of the numbered model SLR's but those are not interesting to me. Finally, I saw one Aria and a bunch of S2's and S2B's. The S2 is a noticeably smaller camera than the ST.

As far as lenses go, I saw 60-75 lenses, pretty much the whole line I think, even the telephotos. It was the Contax lenses that gave me reason to pause. I found that the lenses are backwards! The focus and aperture ranges are set to the opposite direction than my Nikon F and Fuji rangefinder lenses turn. I'm not 100% sure how I will like handling lenses that rotate in the opposite direction than what I am used to.

Now I have to think about that for awhile......

I wish we had a camera mall like yours over here! Just one thought: if you do decide to go the Contax route (you'll get used to the lens focusing very quickly) it is important to consider the main difference between the S2 and S2b - the S2 uses spot metering and the S2b was introduced as a result of complaints from photographers about that (not a major issue in reality) and so uses average metering. It seems odd that S2b did not offer both like most Contax models but it is a joy to use and that mechanical shutter is sweetness itself - the S2b also has slightly better mirror damping than the S2.

 

[RattyMouse]

I wish we had a camera mall like yours over here! Just one thought: if you do decide to go the Contax route (you'll get used to the lens focusing very quickly) it is important to consider the main difference between the S2 and S2b - the S2 uses spot metering and the S2b was introduced as a result of complaints from photographers about that (not a major issue in reality) and so uses average metering. It seems odd that S2b did not offer both like most Contax models but it is a joy to use and that mechanical shutter is sweetness itself - the S2b also has slightly better mirror damping than the S2.

Thanks for your reply! The Contax S2B's here typically are priced around $800-$900, which is much more than the S2 by about $400 or so. I shoot 35mm with a Nikon Fm2n which is really just about the same as a Contax S2B, so that is a highly attractive camera. If it were priced the same as an FM2n, I'd own one a long time ago, but at $900, that's a pricey camera.

I'm not sure how much longer we will have camera stores like this in China. The market for cameras is in free fall and this mall is quickly becoming a ghost town. 10 years or so when it opened up, this mall would be PACKED with people buying digital cameras. Now, many stores have gone out of business, many of the remaining stores have either downsized their floor space, or converted over into camera repair shops. About 10 repair shops opened up last month, all in spaces that used to be retain stores.

I was in the mall yesterday and it was a quiet, lonely place to be almost. Sadly, I had no idea that I was out of developer and last night when I went to check, found that I had none in stock, so off to the mall I go again today!!

 

[ronnies]

So this weekend I was at the camera mall, looking for what is on offer in the way of Contax SLR's. I visited a half dozen or so shops and found 8-10 Contax RTS III's, where the prices seemed to be in the $700 range or so. I saw many Contax ST's, priced around $400 or so. I saw a bunch of the numbered model SLR's but those are not interesting to me. Finally, I saw one Aria and a bunch of S2's and S2B's. The S2 is a noticeably smaller camera than the ST.

As far as lenses go, I saw 60-75 lenses, pretty much the whole line I think, even the telephotos. It was the Contax lenses that gave me reason to pause. I found that the lenses are backwards! The focus and aperture ranges are set to the opposite direction than my Nikon F and Fuji rangefinder lenses turn. I'm not 100% sure how I will like handling lenses that rotate in the opposite direction than what I am used to.

Now I have to think about that for awhile......

I have several camera systems that focus in both directions. I find that most manufacturers will also have the range finder wedges cut to match the focus direction of the lens. My Yashica cameras have them the opposite way to my Nikons so if the image is offset to the left in the top RF wedge I still turn the lens focus ring the same way on both systems.

What does annoy me is when manufacturers have the wedges the wrong way round like Konica !

Ronnie

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Well, if you don't mind the extra weight, an RTS III would be a good option- you can find them in good working order for under $600 USD. I want to say I paid around $500 for mine, maybe even a little less than that, at Adorama. The S2/S2b have always had a cult following, as has the ST. Also look at an RX - they weigh less than the RTS III, they don't have the vacuum film plane, but they still have the ceramic pressure plate IIRC, a very nice bright viewfinder, spot and center-weighted metering, and that depth-of-focus indicator function. Plus it's a Porsche Design designed body, so the ergonomics are excellent.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

+1 on the RX. Love mine. Also love my RTSII though. Shot my AX this weekend. Big and bulky but such an awesome camera.

Funny. I've been shooting Contax SLRs and Nikon SLRs for years now. Never noticed they focused in different directions. I just shoot them.

 

[RattyMouse]

OK, had to go back to the camera mall again last night. I totally did not know I had no developer as I was "certain" that I had a bag of D-76 stashed away somewhere. Turns out that bag got used up and so with my HC-110 bottle drained I was developerless. So I go back to the mall (across town trip) and buy 2 bags of D-76, a roll of Tri-X, and a roll of Kentmere 100. I've never shot that film before so now have something new to play with. The mall is almost empty so I go see my "guy" over in the used store. He's completely free and so this time I talk with him and get to TOUCH some cameras!

First off, I ask to see a virtually *brand new* Zeiss Ikon rangefinder. WOW, what a gorgeous camera, with a gorgeous viewfinder. Oh. My. God. But this is a beautiful camera. I want it. Bad. It's about $2000 for the Ikon w/ a 50mm f/1.5 Sonnar. Anyone know if this is a good price?

Next I go look at some Contax SLR's. First off he brings out FOUR RTS III's for me to play with. The highest priced one looks like it is brand new, fresh out of the box. It feels great to hold. The viewfinder also seems amazingly high quality. I have him put a 50mm f/1.7 lens on it and again, it feels great. The focus point is pretty small, but clearer than my FM2n. The reversed directions don't seem to bother me. I can get the RTS III 50mm combo for about $850 or so. Is this a good price? This is for the super mint RTS. For a few hundred dollars off, I can get one with a bit of used look, but not extreme by any measure.

The ST's that I thought he had were in fact, Contax NX's. I didn't hold one of those, but it seems very close to the RTS III, just a bit smaller.

I should not have held that Zeiss Ikon. Now I am in massive conflict. Such a hard decision!

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Next I go look at some Contax SLR's. First off he brings out FOUR RTS III's for me to play with. The highest priced one looks like it is brand new, fresh out of the box. It feels great to hold. The viewfinder also seems amazingly high quality. I have him put a 50mm f/1.7 lens on it and again, it feels great. The focus point is pretty small, but clearer than my FM2n. The reversed directions don't seem to bother me. I can get the RTS III 50mm combo for about $850 or so. Is this a good price? This is for the super mint RTS. For a few hundred dollars off, I can get one with a bit of used look, but not extreme by any measure.

The ST's that I thought he had were in fact, Contax NX's. I didn't hold one of those, but it seems very close to the RTS III, just a bit smaller.

I should not have held that Zeiss Ikon. Now I am in massive conflict. Such a hard decision!

$850 for an RTS III plus the 50 1.7 is a very good price. I was in it to the tune of $1K for my RTS III (which is definitely a user piece, not NIB) and the 50 1.4 (which was a NIB piece).

 

[Patrick Robert James]

The ZI is a great camera RattyMouse. It has the best VF ever put on a RF. If you decide to get one, you are on a whole other level for your budget. ZM lenses cost a fortune. They usually sell for $800-1000. They are a good deal compared to Leica though. The ZM lenses are pretty spectacular. Worth every penny.

 

[RobC]

The ZI is a great camera RattyMouse. It has the best VF ever put on a RF. If you decide to get one, you are on a whole other level for your budget. ZM lenses cost a fortune. They usually sell for $800-1000. They are a good deal compared to Leica though. The ZM lenses are pretty spectacular. Worth every penny.

I think he's just having a bad bout of gas. Earlier in topic it was suggested he go down the RF route with zeiss glass and he dismissed the idea as he's already catered for that. Now he's changing his mind.
So lets have lots more suggestions like 20x24 Lotus and really inflate the possibilities.

 

[RattyMouse]

I think he's just having a bad bout of gas. Earlier in topic it was suggested he go down the RF route with zeiss glass and he dismissed the idea as he's already catered for that. Now he's changing his mind.
So lets have lots more suggestions like 20x24 Lotus and really inflate the possibilities.

LOL!!

I'm really leaning against rangefinders, but holding one in hand is pretty powerful stuff. I have two rangefinders for medium format photography, and I know that I'd miss the SLR experience if I bought the Ikon.

 

[RattyMouse]

$850 for an RTS III plus the 50 1.7 is a very good price. I was in it to the tune of $1K for my RTS III (which is definitely a user piece, not NIB) and the 50 1.4 (which was a NIB piece).

Well, the 50mm f/1.4 is a lot more expensive than the 1.7 so I'm not sure the price I have is great. Good maybe but not great.

 

[RattyMouse]

The ZI is a great camera RattyMouse. It has the best VF ever put on a RF. If you decide to get one, you are on a whole other level for your budget. ZM lenses cost a fortune. They usually sell for $800-1000. They are a good deal compared to Leica though. The ZM lenses are pretty spectacular. Worth every penny.

The Contax lenses are quite expensive too. The 21mm Distagon goes for $2k here and that would be high on the list of lenses wanted. The 85mm f/1.4 and 100mm Makro also are pricey. Plus, there are more lens options in total with the RTS III compared to the Ikon so my costs would be higher simply on quantity.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Well, the 50mm f/1.4 is a lot more expensive than the 1.7 so I'm not sure the price I have is great. Good maybe but not great.

A 50 1.4 in the Like New condition I paid for mine is around $500. A 50 1.7 from KEH is around $250. I paid around $500 for my used but good RTS III body - it would be a KEH BGN grade. I still see RTS III's on Ebay in high grade going for $750-800. So, $850 for a mint body plus a lens is like getting the lens free.

 

[RattyMouse]

A 50 1.4 in the Like New condition I paid for mine is around $500. A 50 1.7 from KEH is around $250. I paid around $500 for my used but good RTS III body - it would be a KEH BGN grade. I still see RTS III's on Ebay in high grade going for $750-800. So, $850 for a mint body plus a lens is like getting the lens free.

OK, good to know. The trick now is finding out if the inside of the RTS III is as good as the outside.

 

[kanzlr]

I owned an RTS III once and it is a superb camera in every way. Still, I prefer the RX as a user camera, as it is smaller, lighter and still a superbly capable, modern camera.
regarding the expensive 21mm: what I did was to buy a Contax G rangefinder and use the 21mm Biogon-G, as it is an even better lens, smaller, lighter, cheaper.

 

[RattyMouse]

I owned an RTS III once and it is a superb camera in every way. Still, I prefer the RX as a user camera, as it is smaller, lighter and still a superbly capable, modern camera.
regarding the expensive 21mm: what I did was to buy a Contax G rangefinder and use the 21mm Biogon-G, as it is an even better lens, smaller, lighter, cheaper.

The RX is not a C/Y mount camera so that's why I'm not interested in this model of camera.

 

[kanzlr]

Erm. Of course it is a C/Y mount camera.

 

[RattyMouse]

Erm. Of course it is a C/Y mount camera.

OK, I'm confused. This is an autofocus camera correct? I had read, clearly incorrectly, that the mount changed when Contax started making autofocus lenses.

I must be thinking about something else, perhaps their digital N1.

Edit: Wikipedia has been consulted. Now I understand where I went wrong.

 

[kanzlr]

No it is manual focus. It has a phase detect sensor that tells you if it thinks your shot is in focus, but it is still a manual focus camera with C/Y mount. The AX is also C/Y but auto focus by moving the film plane.

The Contax autofocus bodies with the new electronic bajonett are the NC, N1 and N digital.

 

[blockend]

LOL!!

I'm really leaning against rangefinders, but holding one in hand is pretty powerful stuff. I have two rangefinders for medium format photography, and I know that I'd miss the SLR experience if I bought the Ikon.

If you're stuck on buying Contax lenses for their reputation, you have little option but to purchase a Contax body. If you just want a high quality SLR with fine lenses to fulfil a practical photographic role, there are many to choose from. Being tempted by the ZI rangefinder suggests you have some money burning a hole in your pocket you need to get rid of, fast! In those situations I wait until the feeling goes away and assess my actual photographic needs. Just remember, there is no photographic decision that doesn't have a downside.

 

[RobC]

If you're stuck on buying Contax lenses for their reputation, you have little option but to purchase a Contax body. If you just want a high quality SLR with fine lenses to fulfil a practical photographic role, there are many to choose from. Being tempted by the ZI rangefinder suggests you have some money burning a hole in your pocket you need to get rid of, fast! In those situations I wait until the feeling goes away and assess my actual photographic needs. Just remember, there is no photographic decision that doesn't have a downside.

Contax is all about the lenses that went with them and that means zeiss. The Ikon ZI lenses are improved over the much older Contax lenses as are the ZE and ZF lenses. So if its really about the lenses then it makes a lot of sense to buy something newer such as the Ikon ZI or get the Nikon or Canon Zeiss equivalents of the Contax lenses. Otherwise it really is about the Contax branding (even though he's claiming it isn't).

The question should be what type of photography are you doing and what is the best tool for the job.