Contax IIA shutter problem at 1/1250

Xícara · Feb 27, 2019

Hello forum,

I have a 95% functional early model Contax IIA (serial#: P 97460). The shutter works properly at all speeds with the exception of 1/1250, where it produces an uneven underexposed region at the top of the frame and in some photos, at the bottom as well, also, streaking effects.

Here is a typical example:

Here is another example of a shot that I took at what I thought was 1/125 (a speed which the IIA doesn't have!) but was actually 1/1250. I played around with the contrast on this image and unfortunately can't presently find the raw scan. Regardless, this image shows under-exposed regions at the top and bottom of the frame and heavy streaking:

The technician that restored the camera has offered to take it back in to see what can be done. I wonder if anyone here can please suggest what might be happening from these photos, so that I might be able pass this information to the technician?

Thanks a lot!

Peltigera · Feb 27, 2019

My guess would be dirt/fluff on the shutter blades being pulled across the film gate.

abruzzi · Feb 27, 2019

Does the IIa have a vertical or horizontal shutter? I had a similar problem with my Spotmatic. The Spotmatic has a horizontal shutter, and at the fastest speed, the distance between the leading and trailing shutter was small. The leading shutter was dragging a bit, so the trailing shutter would close the gap as the shutters moved across the film plane. At the top speed, the trailing shutter would catch up with the leading shutter about 75% of the way across, so the remaining 25% wouldn’t get any exposure. That would leave the left side of the frame (the right side of the image) would be black.

On a vertical shutter you could get a similar effect, but it would be the top portion of the image.

Peltigera · Feb 27, 2019

The Contax has a vertical shutter. I thought dirt rather than the blades dragging b because the dark region is curved while the shutter blades are metal and straight.

abruzzi · Feb 27, 2019

could be. at minimum the camera needs the shutter looked at to see if its the blades or an obstruction.

Theo Sulphate · Feb 27, 2019

The IIa, like the IIIa, has vertically travelling metal slats that are driven by a gears rather than the cloth straps of the II and III. It appears to me that if dirt or some debris is not the problem, then possibly one side of the shutter blades (slats) is travelling faster than the other and also that their motion is not uniform.

Only someone familiar with this Contax shutter should be working on it - perhaps the best you can do is look at the shutter when it is set to B and see if you can spot any debris around the film gate.

Xícara · Feb 28, 2019

Thanks for the replies everyone. Yes a vertical shutter. I can't imagine that there is anything obstructing the curtains, it's had a very thorough service and the technician is a good one. I will check though of course with the bulb setting, thanks. It has film in it at the moment so I'll have to get through the roll. One thing that I didn't mention is that the technician had said that the curtain has been repaired at some point in the past (a curtain may have torn in the past, that was my understanding), perhaps that explains the unevenness....

Peltigera · Feb 28, 2019

Xícara said:
One thing that I didn't mention is that the technician had said that the curtain has been repaired at some point in the past (a curtain may have torn in the past, that was my understanding), perhaps that explains the unevenness....

The 'curtain' is metal slats and cannot tear.

guangong · Feb 28, 2019

After my Zeiss trained camera repairman died, I feel that any competent repairman can work on these cameras. The shutter in the IIa is much improved over the earlier II. In fact, where other new camera manuals advise that cameras be sent to “authorized repairman”, my manual for IIa says to send to any competent repairman. The complexity of this shutter is highly exaggerated. Both of my IIa cameras work like new after service.
On the other hand, I have never heard a kind word about the Contarex SLR regarding repairs.

Deleted member 88956 · Feb 28, 2019

Xícara said:
Hello forum,

I have a 95% functional early model Contax IIA (serial#: P 97460). The shutter works properly at all speeds with the exception of 1/1250, where it produces an uneven underexposed region at the top of the frame and in some photos, at the bottom as well, also, streaking effects.

Here is a typical example:

View attachment 218271

Here is another example of a shot that I took at what I thought was 1/125 (a speed which the IIA doesn't have!) but was actually 1/1250. I played around with the contrast on this image and unfortunately can't presently find the raw scan. Regardless, this image shows under-exposed regions at the top and bottom of the frame and heavy streaking:

View attachment 218272

The technician that restored the camera has offered to take it back in to see what can be done. I wonder if anyone here can please suggest what might be happening from these photos, so that I might be able pass this information to the technician?

Thanks a lot!

Well, I find the pics interesting, especially the B&W one that is quite a piece. Don't fix the shutter, just use the camera as a digital and leave results to chance

John Koehrer · Mar 1, 2019

As Theo says one side of the curtain is moving more slowly. Sometimes caused by a slight difference in
the length of the curtain tapes or a slight difference in diameter of shutter rollers. Maybe a film chip or fuzz?^^^^

FWIW I'd be surprised if the speed can be adjusted anywhere close to 1/1250
simply from wear & tear(old age).

Theo Sulphate · Mar 1, 2019

Well, since the shutter consists of metal slats driven by gears, it is possible that alignment is off somehow on one side or something is retarding the movement on one side.

I suspect a repair person is going to have to look at it - be sure to show the negatives when you take or send the camera in for service. ...and mention you see this only at 1/1250.

BMbikerider · Mar 2, 2019

John Koehrer said:
As Theo says one side of the curtain is moving more slowly. Sometimes caused by a slight difference in
the length of the curtain tapes or a slight difference in diameter of shutter rollers. Maybe a film chip or fuzz?^^^^

FWIW I'd be surprised if the speed can be adjusted anywhere close to 1/1250
simply from wear & tear(old age).

Unlike a between lens shutter the speed does not completely rely upon a spring tension to operate which will of course weaken off over time. Focal plane shutters from the lowest speed to the highest, all work upon two shutter curtains travelling independently over the film and exposing it. The actual speed is governed by the 1st curtain passing the over the film followed by the second but as the speeds rise the gap between them decreases. For instance at 1/30th the 1st curtain may probably uncover the whole film frame before the 2nd curtain moves. at 1/1000th the gap between the 1st and second curtain may be only as little as 3mm. For this reason Focal plane shutters at high are generally more accurate than leaf shutters. 1/500 is generally the highest that can be set with a leaf shutter. A properly adjusted focal plane shutter will generally retain it's accuracy over a very long period.

A phenomen of the focal plane shutter travelling across the frame at slower speeds will show the wheel of a vehicle travelling in the same direction with an visible distortion. In extreme cases this distortion can make a circle appear like an egg in shape.

However the metal slats of a Contax shutter do have an un-enviable reputation of developing faults which were never really were sorted out and this may be one of them. As to what is causing your problem I simply have no idea and it may be only a technician can identify it.

Kino · Mar 2, 2019

Not to be flippant, but just avoid that shutter speed! I have a Kiev 88 that has the same problem on the highest shutter speed and I have come to simply avoiding that speed.

No problem.

These cameras are getting pretty old and, like their owners in some cases, don't work to 100% capacity.

guangong · Mar 2, 2019

The Kiev cameras ( I use one as my bad weather 35), is derived from the pre war Contax II. The IIa is a post war camera, although based upon the general idea of the pre war design, has a much improved shutter design. While dependable, this shutter was costly to manufacture, which is why the Nikon rf clones used a Leica type of shutter.
As I mentioned above, any competent repairman can fix a IIa (unless, of course some mechanical piece is broken and can not be repaired)

blockend · Mar 3, 2019

Although the IIa has a different shutter to the II on with the Kiev is based, my Kiev 4 exhibited an identical issue at the highest shutter speed in the rolls preceding complete shutter failure. My guess is the shutter is on its way out. Until you posted your examples, I've never seen the same phenomenon anywhere else.

guangong · Mar 3, 2019

Blockend, I agree. Time for service. Since availability of parts can be a problem, better to service now than wait until shutter is kaput.

Xícara · Mar 4, 2019

Thanks again everyone. I finished the film that was in the camera on the weekend and took a look at the shutter curtain. Despite being metal, it definitely looks like it has been "torn" at some point along one of the joins between the main slats of the curtain and "soldered" (if I dare say it) back together again. No dirt or fluff from what I can see. I don't doubt that the shutter is on its way out and yes, perhaps i'll have to live with a max speed of 1/500. I like to shoot with wide apertures quite often, so I'll try and keep to slower film. When I bought the camera, I also bought a second broken IIA body for parts. Although the shutter in this is likely to be in a worse state (the shutter is completely jammed), I'll take it in with the camera to the technician today, perhaps he'll be able to salvage something from the second body. All the best!

Ben Sakas · Feb 5, 2022

Did you ever get this figured out? I’m having the same issue with my IIIa that I just recently picked up. The camera and lens are in absolutely mint condition and every shutter speed seems to be working flawlessly, but from what I can tell, 1250 isn’t opening the shutter at all. I haven’t developed the roll I just shot with it yet, but I’m pretty sure my frames are going to be completely unexposed. Any help would be super awesome

Bill Burk · Feb 5, 2022

I have a IIa that never works at 1250 and I don’t mind it at all.

Ben Sakas · Feb 5, 2022

I mean, it’s not much of a big deal, it’s easy enough to get around. I’m just more interested in the answer, the shutter works perfectly in every other speed so I’m curious. Also, as far as resale goes, it would be nice to be able to say all speeds work as they should…

Bill Burk · Feb 5, 2022

I believe it’s why Robert Capa came back from D-Day with so few pictures. I think hid 1250 wasn’t working snd the only pictures he got were when cloud cover made him think of using 250

Ben Sakas · Feb 6, 2022

Wow, how crazy, and that’s a really good theory! I bet you’re right, or at the very least it was the cause of some of the blank frames

GRHazelton · Apr 21, 2022

Bill Burk said:
I believe it’s why Robert Capa came back from D-Day with so few pictures. I think hid 1250 wasn’t working snd the only pictures he got were when cloud cover made him think of using 250

I've heard that the lab processing Capa's shots screwed up most of his film. What a hideous outcome, to risk one's life for irreplaceable shots to have them lost in processing. I'd imagine that Capa's Contax cameras were thoroughly vetted before he set off to risk his life. Interesting that he used Contax rather than Leica cameras.
BTW, Advance Camera in Portland Oregon did a thorough CLA on my Contax IIa. The camera looks and feels almost new. the shutter and self timer whirr quietly; the cost was moderate. Of course, YMMV.

Bill Burk · Apr 22, 2022

The story most commonly told is from eyewitness John G. Morris that he took the call from the lab boy that “images literally floated off the film.” Added to that story it’s told that the heat was turned on in the drying cabinet and the door shut, something they “never” do.

I was intensely interested in trying to test the story so I bought some vintage Super-XX.

Part of my theory is that they would want to make prints fast, and in photojournalism when you want to get to press fast you dip the film in an alcohol ether mixture. And hang it to dry, but you would leave that cabinet open and not turn on the heat. I think that is a plausible scenario.

So I tried, assuming alcohol ether would boil at room temperature, I made an alcohol acetone solution and “boiled” the film in it, hung it to dry with a hair dryer for heat.

I could not get the emulsion to float off but the film curled tightly. Someone who didn’t know better and didn’t realize the film was mostly blank in the first place would freak and think they ruined it. So it all adds up to me.

A D Coleman has a conspiracy theory that Robert Capa brought back nothing and the lab and John G Morris covered for him. I wrote to Coleman but haven’t heard back. I think my story makes more sense.

Contax IIA shutter problem at 1/1250

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