Contact printing unfixed lumens?

[jeanli]

hello all,
I've been making lumens and keeping them unfixed to preserve their fantastic colors. I've tried numerous stabilizing solutions as opposed to fixing but that has never solved the color loss issue, so I am committed to keeping them unfixed and boxed. I have scanned them digitally of course and they look, yknow, fine, but for exhibition I prefer to keep the process as analog in keeping with the historical lumen process itself. I am wondering if anyone has done straight up contact printing with lumens?? I mean, why not? I don't really have color darkroom experience, only b&w contact printing, paper to paper. I wonder if I can ask a chemical lab to do this work or if I have to DIY. This is new territory for me==any thoughts appreciated!
jeanli

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

I find rapid-process stabilizer works. The process loses the blues and purples, but leaves the yellows and browns. See: https://www.photrio.com/forum/media/rhododendron-blossom-lumen-print.33407/

The discussion has details on the stabilizer.

The print is many years old and has been left for weeks in the sun to see if there is any fading/darkening, there isn't.

 

[jeanli]

Yes, but the blues and purples!!

 

[koraks]

I wonder if I can ask a chemical lab to do this work or if I have to DIY.

Only if you find someone who is very experimental and want to spend some time on figuring out a workflow. The few remaining pro labs who do analog color printing are geared to enlarging color negatives onto RA4 paper.

In terms of managing expectations: if you intend to accurately replicate the existing prints this way, I wouldn't even bother. You'll end up spending weeks trying to figure out a decent reversal process, which would either be chemical or by means of an internegative contact print. But in the end, you'll run into the issue that color paper simply isn't designed to do this and it'll prove to be impossible to reproduce the actual colors of your original print. You will get something, and it will be color, but it will be a different/new artwork. This in itself may be worthwhile, so by all means give it a go if that's the direction you'd like to explore.

Processing color paper in your own studio or even at home isn't difficult.

 

[Don_ih]

You could photograph them with colour film and make prints.

As for keeping them in a box unfixed, I don't know how long they will remain unchanged. And every exposure to light will tick away at the image.

 

[koraks]

You could photograph them with colour film and make prints.

That's a great idea. Might have to overdevelop the film a bit to get decent contrast in the prints; they'll come out rather flat otherwise.

 

[jeanli]

Only if you find someone who is very experimental and want to spend some time on figuring out a workflow. The few remaining pro labs who do analog color printing are geared to enlarging color negatives onto RA4 paper.

In terms of managing expectations: if you intend to accurately replicate the existing prints this way, I wouldn't even bother. You'll end up spending weeks trying to figure out a decent reversal process, which would either be chemical or by means of an internegative contact print. But in the end, you'll run into the issue that color paper simply isn't designed to do this and it'll prove to be impossible to reproduce the actual colors of your original print. You will get something, and it will be color, but it will be a different/new artwork. This in itself may be worthwhile, so by all means give it a go if that's the direction you'd like to explore.

Processing color paper in your own studio or even at home isn't difficult.

YESSSS thanks for all this- @koraks -i totally hear you. Am chewing on all the details and appreciate you.

 

[jeanli]

That's a great idea. Might have to overdevelop the film a bit to get decent contrast in the prints; they'll come out rather flat otherwise.

I am going to try it! I promise to report back on my workflow solutions, thanks everyone!

 

[jeanli]

You could photograph them with colour film and make prints.

As for keeping them in a box unfixed, I don't know how long they will remain unchanged. And every exposure to light will tick away at the image.

thx. I have had unfixed lumens sitting in a box for years that still look great--I take them out every so often at night in my studio under tungsten bulbs. I dont know about 100 years from now lol.

 

[koraks]

I am going to try it! I promise to report back on my workflow solutions, thanks everyone!

I'd love that; please keep us updated! I'd love to see those prints, so in case you ever get any images up, please let me know.

And welcome aboard!

 

[Daniela]

Interesting to read that you can keep them unfixed for a while, OP. I also love the blues and purples and always regret to see them go in the fixer. I like @Don_ih 's idea of photographing them...look forward to read of your experimentation!

 

[tezzasmall]

I suppose that there's little chance that the OP jeanli is still about to let us know how she got on?

I've just checked and her last messages were the ones above...

I've just sent to her a DM with fingers crossed.

Terry S
UK

 

[jeanli]

Only if you find someone who is very experimental and want to spend some time on figuring out a workflow. The few remaining pro labs who do analog color printing are geared to enlarging color negatives onto RA4 paper.

In terms of managing expectations: if you intend to accurately replicate the existing prints this way, I wouldn't even bother. You'll end up spending weeks trying to figure out a decent reversal process, which would either be chemical or by means of an internegative contact print. But in the end, you'll run into the issue that color paper simply isn't designed to do this and it'll prove to be impossible to reproduce the actual colors of your original print. You will get something, and it will be color, but it will be a different/new artwork. This in itself may be worthwhile, so by all means give it a go if that's the direction you'd like to explore.

Processing color paper in your own studio or even at home isn't difficult.

 

[jeanli]

Hello everybody--and thanks to Terry for knocking on my door after all this time! This was a great thread full of comments that I still think about regularly. Regarding my lumens: the originals remain unfixed in their conservation box, and I have been using the digital scans for printing-- have been experimenting with UV printing onto steel which has been quite a year of testing and learning. I am loving the relationship between the ephemeral nature of lumens and the unyielding gravity of steel . See below the worktable at the lab, with my steel pieces and the bracketed test piece! Still not ready for exhibiton but getting closer. Thanking everyone in this thread for thinking with me.

 

[jeanli]

ps. Here is one lumen printed onto the same lower left piece of steel

 

[mshchem]

That's excellent!

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Wow! Incredible!

What process are you using to print on steel? Can you share some details?

 

[koraks]

ps. Here is one lumen printed onto the same lower left piece of steel

That's very pretty indeed! The stepped exposure in the other photo also looks lovely!

What process are you using to print on steel?

Yeah, same question here; is that cyanotype?

 

[jeanli]

This process is called UV printing--where the photographic image can be printed onto almost anything I suppose, as long as it lays flat ,and is "cured" to the surface with uv rays. I am in NYC and work with a shop in Brooklyn called Color Center https://www.colorcenter.nyc/
that has a particularly experimental print technician! But other shops also have this service.
@koraks no this is just a lumen/ scan, altho I have used cyanotype juice in some of the lumens ...I dont think this one was tho!

 

[jeanli]

this one I believe was where I dipped the plant into cyan juice? hard to remember sometimes!