Contact Printing 5x7 on 8x10 paper

[timbo10ca]

Here's another one that may be obvious:

I like the look of a 5x7 print on a larger sheet of paper. I've been trying to think of a way to contact print a neg in the center of the paper, and keeping the rest of the paper masked off so it remains white. So far my idea is to use an 8x10 matt with a 5x7 hole that I place on top of the glass, and line up the paper and negative underneath it. If I had a dedicated printer for LF, I could tape the matt in place, and mark off boundaries on the foam as to where to place the paper, to keep everything from sliding around while I set up. I only have one contact printer though, and I want to still use it for 35mm and MF contact sheets.
My original thought was to put a piece of paper down, then the matt, then the neg inside the matt, all lined up, and then a 5x7 piece of glass over the neg. Would the glass be heavy enough though to keep the neg firm against the paper for maximum sharpness though?
I am starting to get the impression from reading other posts that my $40 PrintFile contact printer is not going to be sufficient for good contact prints anyway (not sure why- maybe this could be explained? Is it the weight of the glass or something), so I may be having to dish out for another frame. I sure would like to avoid that though.....

Thanks,
Tim

 

[Vaughn]

It is important that there is enough even pressure over the negative to maintain good contact -- for the sharpest contact prints. If your Patterson does, then it is good enough.

One other possibility is to buy a piece of 9"x11" or so thick glass (have the edges sanded to protect you fingers -- and it keeps the glass from chipping at the edges) and use it as your 5x7 contact printer. Find the thinnest opaquic paper you can find (even rubylith might work well) to make frame around the negative ( on the bottom of the glass -- same side as the neg). Tape the neg to the glass using transparent tape (just two smal pieces on opposite corners) so that when you place the glass & neg on top of the photopaper, the neg doesn't move.

Under the paper you can use a piece or closed-cell foam (I have used the black backpacking sleeping pads), or even a piece of black matboard.

Or buy a contact printing frame on ebay...

Vaughn

 

[eric]

This is an interesting thread cause I've been thinking THE SAME EXACT THING for about a year now. I've just only played with ideas in my head and perhaps, together, we can get somewhere. I like the idea of creating a mask with thin opaque or better yet, wit that rubylith right on the glass. But I was thinking the same, the thickness of the mask will ruin the pressure. Perhaps, slightly bigger piece of paper under the 5x7 and under the 8x10 so that it gets raised a little so the glass will make contact?
I was also thinking of making the "hole" in the glass by taping the section (in my case, 4x5 negs) on top of the glass and carefully position the neg under that "window".
Or now, that I reread my reply, you can take the rubylith and make that the TOP portion of the glass.

 

[Jerevan]

Well, I been thinking about this, too... Trying to figure out a good way to make 5x7 contacts on an 8x10. The most problematic part for me is to get the neg centered on the paper. But if one gets a piece of heavy glass and makes this opaque frame on top of it, as Eric says, might work pretty well. If the glass is exactly 8x10 and the opaque part is centered. I think just a matt board on top of the glass could work, but that doesn't solve the centering issue.

 

[eric]

is centered. I think just a matt board on top of the glass could work, but that doesn't solve the centering issue.

I'm glad we are all thinking the same.
The centering part is the part that we have to brainstorm. Cause I can see it now when you place the neg down and the glass, the neg always seems to move a little.

Perhaps (just thinking and typing), you take that matt paper idea, put it over an 8x10. Place neg in openning, and somehow, tack the corners. Then remove the matt, and place glass. I wonder....will using clear scotch tape be seen on the final output? Won't light go through it like glass?

 

[Jerevan]

If the tape is masked off by the matt, it shouldn't show up. But it might leave marks on the paper itself... Hmmm... gotta go think about this.

 

[eric]

If the tape is masked off by the matt, it shouldn't show up. But it might leave marks on the paper itself... Hmmm... gotta go think about this.

But then we still have the same issue of the matt is raised and the glass won't be in "contact" with the neg. I'll have to try the tape idea this weekend on some 120 film. My guess, is that i'll be okay with RC paper but for fiber, perhaps taping a used piece of fiber paper and taking it off a few times to remove some glue, may make it just tacky enough.

 

[matt miller]

How about using rubylith to mask the paper, and cutting a piece of clear mylar (the same thickness as the rubylith and same dimensions as the opening in the rubylith) to cover the negative. You wouldn't lose pressure over the negative this way.

 

[Jerevan]

I meant putting the matt on top of the glass, with the neg underneath, taped to the paper. Centering and taping the neg to paper is done with the help of the loose matt first. Real-world experiments to follow...

 

[removed account4]

My original thought was to put a piece of paper down, then the matt, then the neg inside the matt, all lined up, and then a 5x7 piece of glass over the neg. Would the glass be heavy enough though to keep the neg firm against the paper for maximum sharpness though?
Thanks,
Tim

hi tim

a big piece of matboard with a nice window and a heavy piece of glass the size of your film will work well, as long as the window is just a bit bigger than the film, and the glass is heavy ( like 1/4" plate ). having a nice window cut in 4ply board will help you orient your film too ...

john

 

[photomc]

Have actually done this with good results. I used piece of black paper (11x14) cut it off folded so that a piece of 8x10 paper would fit with a window cut into it for the 5x7 negative, use some rubylith tape on the corners to hold the negative in place (on the inside) and put the whole thing in one of the Preimer contact printers. Worked perfect....was able to print 12 prints in a session without any problem. Just placed the 8x10 paper into the fold and lined up the top...in my case I had the window cut off center so that there was more 'white space' at the bottom.

Hope this helps.

 

[Vaughn]

I know a photog who tapes two 4x5 negs onto a 8x10 glass negative carrier using clear sticky tape (scotch tape) and then enlarges them onto a piece of photo paper. The tape does not show up in the photograph, but I have noticed that scotch tape does block some UV light and shows up in my carbon prints.

If one uses a thin mask on the same side of the glass as the neg (the same thickness or less than the film) pressure on the neg should give good contact. Using a material under the paper such as the closed cell foam, should also help to maintain good contact if there is a little thickness difference between the mask and the negative.

Putting the mask on top of the glass will also work -- but if the glass is thick, one may not get quite as sharp of a border around the neg.

But of course the best thing is to try it out a few different methods...best of luck!

 

[User Removed]

Place the ruby lith/matboard or black material on top of the glass of the contact printing frame. Make sure you don't have too thick of glass.

On the side of the glass where the negative is put against, use tape and create somewhat of "stops" to butt the negative and paper against so they match up with the mat overtop.

This way, you just leave the top mat always on the glass, and all you do is lay the negative and paper in the contact frame and close it up to expose. VERY SIMPLE.

 

[paulie]

lithographers tape is the best way

 

[Sully75]

Haven't paid too much attention to this, but what if you masked off the negative part on a piece of glass, then spray painted the black part? Then you could tape the negative to the spray painted part. You'd have a dedicated contact printer for the size negative you were printing.

Might have to scuff the glass up with some sandpaper to get the paint to stick? I don't really know.

 

[ic-racer]

It will be a thousand times easier to just projection print it. You can crop out the dust specs at the edges or print full frame; either way you are in control.

 

[paulie]

lithographers tape is the only way to do this any other way will not work well, i have three glass plates with correct size apertures for 6x9 5x4 and 10 x 8 .

i only mask the area around the neg with lith tape, then the rest of the plate is masked using card stock

the lith tape is on the bottom of the glass thats comes in contact with the neg, card stock mask on top surface of the glass

white borders + centered.

way better than blowing up negs on a enlarger, so 20th century

 

[jtzordon]

I've done this by masking off the 8x10 with a mask made from the black plastic that paper comes in. I taped the mask to the glass of a contact printing frame, line up where there paper needs to be, and tape the negative to the glass. I'm printing these with a black border.

 

[Michael A. Smith]

What you plan to do is not recommended for the following reasons--unless you plan to overmat the print right to the edge of the print. But I assume you do not plan to do that. The large white borders of glossy paper will be the brightest thing the eye sees when looking at your print. It will be distracting from the tones of the print itself.

So why a large black border? That is not good either, as a large black area surrounding the print will make any light tone close to the edge of the print difficult to evaluate. Those tones will look blown out.

If you overmat the print right to the edge then the large white border you propose as fine, but if you are going to do that why waste half the sheet of paper?

Michael A. Smith

 

[Mahler_one]

A suggestion: Alistair Inglis, who is a Sponsor of APUG, makes a variety of very creative products for Analog photographers. Give Alistair a call and discuss your needs. I am sure that he will be able to craft a solution, or give you guidance on solving the problem yourselves. He is a great guy who is very generous with his advice and help.

Ed

 

[Sully75]

What you plan to do is not recommended for the following reasons--unless you plan to overmat the print right to the edge of the print. But I assume you do not plan to do that. The large white borders of glossy paper will be the brightest thing the eye sees when looking at your print. It will be distracting from the tones of the print itself.


Michael A. Smith

Michael, most art prints have a white border around them. And a matted print has a white border too.

 

[jerry lebens]

Ruby lith tape is one answer, but a little fidly. Another option would be to use the black sticky backed plastic made for signwriting and graphics. This can be stuck onto the 10x8 sheet of glass then an aperture cut out in the correct position and the unwanted part peeled away. A small strip of actetate could then be taped on top of the plastic, along one side of the aperture, to act as a crude registration device (a la Paterson contact frame).

Having said this I'd also consider two further options which may or may not suit your intentions but might make things a little easier, if you're prepared to think laterally.
1) Make a same size print, using an enlarger and masking frame, thus avoiding all the problems you'll get regarding general fiddlyness and registration.
2) Make a contact on 5x7 paper, then dry mount it onto a larger sheet of board (or even unexposed 'fixed' photo paper) - not precisely the same thing but visually similar.

Regards
Jerry

 

[paulie]

whats difficult about using lith tape, ive set up sheets with pre stuck tape, havent touched the tape for years. once made you will have white border on contacts , no fuss.

trust me dont mess just use the lith tape

 

[Michael A. Smith]

The white border of a mat board is of a different reflectance (duller) than the white border of photo paper. It is my opinion that the white border of photo paper around a print is distracting.

I dry mount l of my prints, so there is not a black border, nor the white border of photo paper. According to testing that was done comparing dry mounted and hinged prints it was found that the dry mount tissue provided a significant benefit regarding archival longevity of the print.

Michael A. Smith