Contact dermatitis? On darkroom safety

Ivo Stunga · May 13, 2023

Hello guys!
There's a thread on reddit on the safety of darkroom chemicals and what skin conditions one might expect from repeated exposure to acids, bases and development agents. I was under impression that rinsing hands right after exposure should be enough of a precaution, no gloves needed, but others have different opinion of course.
Then I had an idea: if such a hazard really exists, there should be a study, a correlation or at least anecdotal evidence for this. Or two. Then a link was posted with exactly such a study stating that 1/3 of manually developing folks can expect contact dermatitis when working "naked" or with incorrect gloves. This immediately suggested to me that I could ask here for verification and/or disapproval of this.

So, have you started to or already are suffering from various skin conditions - such as Contact dermatitis - from your darkroom activities? Are you using appropriate gloves, what's your take on this?
Paper in question: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2847333/

Alan Johnson · May 13, 2023

Gerald Koch was susceptible to contact dermatitis and warned against p-phenyenediamines and pyrogallol.
It does not seem possible to know in advance if one is particularly susceptible.

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koraks · May 13, 2023

Ivo Stunga said:
So, have you started to or already are suffering from various skin conditions - such as Contact dermatitis - from your darkroom activities?

No, fortunately not.

Ivo Stunga said:
Are you using appropriate gloves, what's your take on this?

Selectively; I do so when handling dichromates (the use of which I'm in the process of minimizing anyway) and hydroxide solutions. With other chemistry, I limit physical exposure through other means. E.g. tongs for moving (small) prints between trays, or simply exchange liquids in trays by pouring previous bath out and pouring in the next bath. So actual skin contact with the chemistry I use is quite minimal to begin with. There are some exceptions, but for the most part, I don't touch chemistry.

logan2z · May 13, 2023

I always use chemical resistant gloves when developing film and making prints.

Anon Ymous · May 13, 2023

I wouldn't like to find out if I have a tendency to develop contact dermatitis, so I always use nitrile gloves. They're very cheap, so why not?

halfaman · May 13, 2023

Substances like metol seems to have a sort of an cummulative effect. There are no issues apparently until your body get to a thereshold dosis, after that point an allergic reaction is developed. That would explain why some people found themselves with dermatitis after years in the darkroom with no symptoms.

Agulliver · May 13, 2023

All anecdotal but I've been developing B&W films by hand since 1986 and working with chemicals including acids and other corrosives since 1999. The only thing that gives me contact dermatitis is "comfort fabric softener" I do not typically wear gloves except when handling stuff like potassium dichromate, which is both toxic and stains.

I do know someone who tends to be allergic to a lot of things, and she found that she has a skin reaction to sodium thiosulphate when I was teaching her home processing a few years ago. So she wears gloves.

I have heard of people working in photo labs or "one man band" operations who started out with no skin reactions but after years of working with photo chemicals every day they did become sensitive.

In practise, there's little harm in using gloves other than environmental considerations of disposable gloves. I personally don't, but then I was the 7 year old using my mother's wardrobe as a makeshift dark room to make contact prints...utilising her roasting trays for developer and fixer. Nobody died.

Don_ih · May 13, 2023

I am allergic to metol, I believe - I'll get contact dermatitis if I happen to get some on me. I'll also get contact dermatitis if I get fixer on me. I use tongs and rinse off any dev or fix that gets on me as soon as it gets on me. I have heavy rubber gloves for film developing. The disposable ones are too short.

And I've had that reaction to that stuff ever since I started using it. But I already had a lot of allergies.

Rick A · May 13, 2023

I've been in the dark for over 60 years, no issues. There are some alternate process chemicals I wear nitrile gloves when using, but general paper and film chems don't bother me.

runswithsizzers · May 13, 2023

Two things are needed to develop contact dermatitis: a triggering substance, and a susceptible immune system. Some substances are more triggering than others, and some immune systems are more susceptible than others.

I think it is impossible to learn much about the risk of developing contact dermatitis based only on reading a few anecdotal reports posted here. If it is something you are concerned about, I suggest wearing gloves and searching for properly conducted studies.

I don't know if latex gloves are still being offered for sale, but be aware, more than a few healthcare workers have developed an allergy to latex gloves, so I would avoid those. <https://www.osha.gov/latex-allergy>

guangong · May 13, 2023

In the early 1950s we learned how to handle and respect hazardous chemicals in high school chemistry class laboratory sessions. Since my film processing of both still and movie film is erratic, commercially prepared developers, etc are not suitable so I mix my own, especially for reversal process. Don’t always wear, but nitrile gloves are useful. Knowing how to pour powders from a jar also helps minimize risks. Unfortunately, my chemist friend who was able to procure some chemicals for me has died, so my supply of one or two will soon be exhausted.

Sirius Glass · May 13, 2023

For me rinsing hands is enough but I always wear nitrile gloves when using pyro [pyrogallo] and selenium, it is not worth taking a chance. If one is at all susceptible it skin irritations use gloves.

pentaxuser · May 13, 2023

Agulliver said:
I personally don't, but then I was the 7 year old using my mother's wardrobe as a makeshift dark room to make contact prints...utilising her roasting trays for developer and fixer. Nobody died.

No but when she found out about her roasting trays, you may well have been threatened. Fortunately mums never meant it Most of here wouldn't be here otherwise

pentaxuser

Doremus Scudder · May 13, 2023

I wear nitrile gloves when tray-developing sheet film and tongs when processing prints. I rarely have to come in direct contact with photochemicals. When I do, I wash. Reducing contact to near zero also reduces the risk of contact dermatitis to near zero

There are really two issues here: toxic substances and allergens. Some developers and toners (pyrogallol and selenium leap to mind) are simply poisonous and can be absorbed through the skin. They build up in the body over time. No amount of contact with these materials is wise. Then there are things, like Metol, which cause dermatitis in susceptible persons after a threshold exposure has been reached, but are tolerated by others.

IM-HO, the best practice is to avoid contact with anything that may cause problems now or in the future. It's really a no-brainer when gloves, tongs, etc. are cheap and effective. Mixing chemicals from powdered reagents that are highly toxic requires more extreme measures like ventilation hoods and respirators to ensure safety, but most of these are easily avoidable or available as liquids. For most, inexpensive and convenient measures are available to prevent exposure, so just use them.

For the few times when you need to dip your bare fingers in fixer or whatever, just rinse well after exposure.

Don't use really dangerous materials unless you have the knowledge and equipment to use them safely. Most photochemicals are rather benign. One can do really well with non- or low-toxicity chemicals.

Best,

Doremus

VinceInMT · May 13, 2023

Ivo Stunga said:
Hello guys!
There's a thread on reddit on the safety of darkroom chemicals and what skin conditions one might expect from repeated exposure to acids, bases and development agents. I was under impression that rinsing hands right after exposure should be enough of a precaution, no gloves needed, but others have different opinion of course.
Then I had an idea: if such a hazard really exists, there should be a study, a correlation or at least anecdotal evidence for this. Or two. Then a link was posted with exactly such a study stating that 1/3 of manually developing folks can expect contact dermatitis when working "naked" or with incorrect gloves. This immediately suggested to me that I could ask here for verification and/or disapproval of this.

So, have you started to or already are suffering from various skin conditions - such as Contact dermatitis - from your darkroom activities? Are you using appropriate gloves, what's your take on this?
Paper in question: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2847333/

I was told about 40 years ago, to be cautious regarding this and that the sensitivity can build up over time. I never used gloves or tongs until a few years ago and now only immerse my hands when doing large prints. I’ve been doing some work with an A+B litho developer and due to the B part, I wear gloves when working with that.

I suspect that as we age there might be internal changes in the body that might make one more sensitive to something than in the past. As an anecdotal example, like many people I drank coffee, not heavily, but I did enjoy a cup or two in the morning. All the sudden, about 15 years ago, I had a negative reaction to consuming it and had to quit. Years went by and I tried a quarter cup and the same thing happened. So, I abstain, but I still use it a developer.

Sirius Glass · May 13, 2023

VinceInMT said:
I was told about 40 years ago, to be cautious regarding this and that the sensitivity can build up over time. I never used gloves or tongs until a few years ago and now only immerse my hands when doing large prints. I’ve been doing some work with an A+B litho developer and due to the B part, I wear gloves when working with that.

I suspect that as we age there might be internal changes in the body that might make one more sensitive to something than in the past. As an anecdotal example, like many people I drank coffee, not heavily, but I did enjoy a cup or two in the morning. All the sudden, about 15 years ago, I had a negative reaction to consuming it and had to quit. Years went by and I tried a quarter cup and the same thing happened. So, I abstain, but I still use it a developer.

As we age, the healing process time increases, thus making us more conscience.

Agulliver · May 13, 2023

pentaxuser said:
No but when she found out about her roasting trays, you may well have been threatened. Fortunately mums never meant it Most of here wouldn't be here otherwise

pentaxuser

She gave me PTSD but not specifically with that incident. Though I do recall her being less than amused. Dad, on the other hand, praised my ingenuity.

Xylo · May 13, 2023

I know I always use the tongues. The only thing I put my fingers in is the photo-flo.
I have on my bookshelf the book: Overexposure - health hazards in photography by Susan D. Shaw and Monona Rossol.
I've never read it...

David Brown · May 13, 2023

I was given a home darkroom kit for Christmas, 1968. No tongs were part of the kit. I used my hands for prints. I developed a rash, but had no idea what it was at the time. It was contact dermatitis, of course. I was in the darkroom (bathroom) constantly after Christmas until the family went on vacation for two weeks in the summer. My rash cleared up. I've used tongs for prints ever since and have not problems. This is, of course, anecdotal. YMMV.

When I was teaching darkroom, I told my students this about chemicals: don't wash your hand in them, and don't drink them. A little common sense (along with gloves and/or tongs) goes a long way.

DREW WILEY · May 13, 2023

Things can get a lot worse than contact dermatitis, like long-term hyper-sensitization or gradual poisoning through the skin. I don't know why anyone in this day and age would handle any kind of darkroom chemicals with bare hands. Disposable nitrile gloves fit well, and are widely available and cheap. Most routine black and white ingredients aren't itch-makers except metol. But still, why would you want residue of any developing agent or fixer on your fingers, then potentially contaminating darkroom surfaces? Glove rinse off much easier. The prints I make are too big for tongs.

Pyro is poisonous, and suspected as a cause of Parkinson's disease. Dichromates, esp ammonium dichromate, are especially hazardous. I've known some people really messed up by those due to careless usage.

Then when you come to color photography chemical, and most alternative processes, you've got some pretty nasty compounds there, with potentially serious health effects down the line if you're careless. I knew two lab owners who couldn't even walk into their own labs due to hypersensitization to RA4 chemistry; another had to have significant areas of scarred lung tissue removed due to being around high volume of Cibachrome bleach with a high sulfuric acid content. I began doing my own Ciba processing outdoor in drums in good weather due to increasing sensitization; and I have necessarily kept up that custom, doing RA4 processing outdoors in drums too, including this morning. It can catch up on you if you're careless about the vapors. No problem for years, and then suddenly, whameee, and you're allergic to it.

Bill Burk · May 14, 2023

From “Complete Introduction to Photography” by J. Harris Gable, Harper & Brothers Publishers, New York 1940

Metol Poisoning was well-known a long time before this advice how to treat it.

I wear gloves a lot, use tongs snd if I get something on my hands I wash them promptly. I don’t want to acquire this sensitivity because I have read that once you get it, even small amounts cause rashes.

MattKing · May 14, 2023

I went decades without using gloves, but have always used tongs.
I've never had problems with contact dermatitis, but have known others in both the photographic and prints shop worlds who have had to change employment because of it.
For the last few years I have been wearing a single nitrile glove on the hand I use for 90% of what I do around chemicals, and that has become natural.
One really big advantage of the gloves that I didn't originally appreciate is that they are much easier to quickly and effectively rinse and dry than bare skin is.

Slixtiesix · May 14, 2023

I once got metol developer into a very tiny open wound that I had at my finger. Although I rinsed it immediately, it burned and itched considerably and took rather long to heal. Never without gloves again!

albada · May 14, 2023

Hydroquinone can cause dermatitis, as I discovered the hard way.
So I always wear nitrile gloves.

halfaman · May 14, 2023

VinceInMT said:
I suspect that as we age there might be internal changes in the body that might make one more sensitive to something than in the past. As an anecdotal example, like many people I drank coffee, not heavily, but I did enjoy a cup or two in the morning. All the sudden, about 15 years ago, I had a negative reaction to consuming it and had to quit. Years went by and I tried a quarter cup and the same thing happened. So, I abstain, but I still use it a developer.

The most strange case I know was an employer of my parents bakery that somehow developed an allergic reaction to wheat flavour after 20 years or so working there. It was a severe reaction involving difficult to breathe and social security services gave him a disability support pension until he found another job compatible with his condition.

Contact dermatitis? On darkroom safety

Ivo Stunga

Alan Johnson

Harvey's 777

koraks

Moderator

logan2z

Anon Ymous

halfaman

Agulliver

Don_ih

Rick A

runswithsizzers

guangong

Sirius Glass

pentaxuser

Doremus Scudder

VinceInMT

Sirius Glass

Agulliver

Xylo

David Brown

DREW WILEY

Bill Burk

MattKing

Moderator

Slixtiesix

albada

halfaman

Contact dermatitis? On darkroom safety

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