Consumer ethics and buying art

[jovo]

I'm just interested in how people explain the relativistic approach they take to this situation, and why is it that they seem to exempt art from the same standard they would apply to any other discretionary purchase.

I have an enormous choice of auto repair shops, car dealers, supermarkets, clothing stores etc. and I'll certainly refrain from using one where I was treated poorly. (Yesterday, we were 'handled' rather shabbily at a Home Depot within 24 hours of that chain's poor earnings report making the news, partly, the news reader explained, because of poor customer service.) But art is unique. I could care less how the artist comports himself in the world, as long as it's not criminal, or deeply offensive to me for some other reason. In other words, only if the artist's behavior would remind me more of the artist than of his work, I'd not buy it.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

The meaning of the art might be quite different from the intentions of the artist.

To distinguish the art from the artist isn't necessarily relativism. It just locates the meaning somewhere other than artistic intention.

 

[laverdure]

If I can remain aloof to the seller's behavior I'm fine. If I can smile at his antics and just kind of nod and say "uh-huh," no problem. But if he gets to me, no deal. I'm pretty good at not taking crap from strangers personally, so generally it's no problem.

Car mechanics... I expect a little more from them.

 

[Jim Chinn]

Laverdure-

your point was what I was noticing and hoping people would comment on more. As I said in an earlier posting, I've found that when I state the problem in the abstract hypothetical, most people say, no, I would never buy art from someone who was rude to me, expressed beliefs I don't wish to support, etc. But when you take it down to a specific example, I've had people say, "Oh, I know so-and-so is a royal ass, and he's rude to me and to people I know, but I still like his work so I'll keep on buying it".

I'm just interested in how people explain the relativistic approach they take to this situation, and why is it that they seem to exempt art from the same standard they would apply to any other discretionary purchase.

Well, if I am buying a new computer and the salesperson is an ass I can go down the street to a different store and buy the same computer.

If you are looking for art to decorate your house or office and don't like an artist I suppose for most applications you can find someone else doing something similar. There are probably a hundred Ansel Adams or Jackson Pollock clones out there so if one pisses you off there is 50 other versions of the same scene or style to choose from.

But there is that rare print, painting or sculpture that transcends the artist. In that case I like to think if I could afford such a work and it appealed to me I could set aside any petty feelings I might have towards the artist.

 

[Terence]

I guess the question is, is the lobster bisque good enough to make you deal with the Soup Nazi, or is the Soup Nazi obnoxious enough to make you forgo the lobster bisque . . .

 

[laverdure]

"I guess the question is, is the lobster bisque good enough to make you deal with the Soup Nazi, or is the Soup Nazi obnoxious enough to make you forgo the lobster bisque . . .

I think that's an excellent summation. Perfect. Just wanted to say.

 

[Peter De Smidt]

If you don't think you should not own the work of people you find reprehensible, the logical end would be to search out such information on every artist you intend to buy from. Is it any better, philosophically speaking, if you own the art of someone reprehensible but didn't realize they were reprehensible? They're still a reprehensible person.

It would seem to me it's either an all or nothing proposition. You're either doing it, or you're not.

Why? Most ethical issues are not that black and white. We have to balance cost versus benefit with these types of things. There's simply no way to know for sure if someone is reprehensible or not. Or more accurately, we may know that someone is reprehensible in some way, but knowing that they're not reprehensible would require information, such as to their intentions, that we simply couldn't know about.

 

[gr82bart]

I guess the question is, is the lobster bisque good enough to make you deal with the Soup Nazi, or is the Soup Nazi obnoxious enough to make you forgo the lobster bisque . . .

That was awesome!

Regards, Art.

 

[David H. Bebbington]

I guess the question is, is the lobster bisque good enough to make you deal with the Soup Nazi, or is the Soup Nazi obnoxious enough to make you forgo the lobster bisque . . .

For me (living in rural England), the answer is clear. If I am hungry, I can buy a cheese sandwich for £1.50. If I consider paying more for a meal, I want a convivial atmosphere. Any eating place which fails to deliver this, whose staff are rude or incompetent, and above all which displays any signs of racism (I am white, some of my friends are not) goes on a permanent blacklist.

Regards,

David

 

[BradS]

I guess the question is, is the lobster bisque good enough to make you deal with the Soup Nazi, or is the Soup Nazi obnoxious enough to make you forgo the lobster bisque . . .

I'll take the soup!

 

[kjsphoto]

Of course, this assume that the person buying the art is not himself being an ass to the point where the artist is not only not disappointed, but in fact glad this buyer does not want to buy his art therefore sparing himself the hassle of dealing with problem people. The customer is not always right, specially when he is asking the artist to compromise his integrity.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Kevin- I think there exists a not-so-subtle distinction between selling a finished product and providing a service. When I'm selling a product, I am much less concerned about the quality of the person buying it because it is a limited interaction. When providing a service, that's a different story.

I once had a customer for whom I shot copy slides of her artwork. The level of service I provided to her for the fee charged was disproportionate in her favor - I came to her house, shot the slides of her work in situ, charged the same price for an 8x10 original as a 30x40 original, and delivered the slides to her for $5 per original slide, $2 per in-camera dupe. She then went on to ask me for much greater service, cutting into my vacation time to shoot slides with a 2-day turnaround, and she expected me to do it at the same rate as my 7-day service. When I told her there would be a rush charge, she went ballistic. Needless to say, I would not take her business again. However, should she approach me at an art show and want to buy one of my prints, as long as she took it as delivered (matted, not framed), I'd be happy to take her money. People may be assholes, but money is green.

 

[MattKing]

People may be assholes, but money is green.

Sorry Scott, I can't resist....

You say you are looking for a new tagline

Me bad.

Matt

 

[kjsphoto]

Scott, now look at it in the opposite way. Suppose you sold this lady a print about a year ago. You then provided the service the following year, she got upset with you and starts to bad mouth behind your back and in fact makes her opinion of you public to anybody who would listen to her. Would you again sell her a print? Would you want to deal with her again given the fact that she initially was very happy with the purchase of your print but subsequently, when you disagreed with her, she started calling you names and tarnishing your reputation? pretty much in the same way you did with Jorge. Would you sell her a print again or consider her a customer you would want to deal with once more?

Kevin- I think there exists a not-so-subtle distinction between selling a finished product and providing a service. When I'm selling a product, I am much less concerned about the quality of the person buying it because it is a limited interaction. When providing a service, that's a different story.

I once had a customer for whom I shot copy slides of her artwork. The level of service I provided to her for the fee charged was disproportionate in her favor - I came to her house, shot the slides of her work in situ, charged the same price for an 8x10 original as a 30x40 original, and delivered the slides to her for $5 per original slide, $2 per in-camera dupe. She then went on to ask me for much greater service, cutting into my vacation time to shoot slides with a 2-day turnaround, and she expected me to do it at the same rate as my 7-day service. When I told her there would be a rush charge, she went ballistic. Needless to say, I would not take her business again. However, should she approach me at an art show and want to buy one of my prints, as long as she took it as delivered (matted, not framed), I'd be happy to take her money. People may be assholes, but money is green.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Kevin-

I have addressed this with you in PM. If you wish to discuss a specific concrete example naming names, we can continue to do so there. As far as I'm concerned, I will not specifically address anything about Jorge in public again, because he is not here to contribute to the discussion. That was my mistake in bringing it up in the first thread; I won't get sucked into doing it again here.

As to your other question, well, actually, the lady I provided service for did turn around and bad-mouth me - suddenly, what had been glowing reports to her friends about how good my slides were and how good my service was turned into a deliberate attempt to destroy my business making slides for artists. As I said in the previous example, knowing what a pain she was to deal with then, if she walked up to my display at an art show, said, "I'll take THAT one", and handed me the cash, I'm not going to toss her out of the tent with her money. I'd do the good Christian thing and show her I can forgive. Without making a show of it.

 

[Daniel-OB]

We are all different. If someone is rude he is rude by someones standard but do not means in general, he is might be just different. But. Howelse we judge than by our own standards?
I would like to know about an artsist many things before I buy his work. I he is even politically on my not-loving side I would reconsider my investment. Looking at work of art, for me, remains me on artist too and his life.

But see two friends photographers artists: Bresson and Doisneau. Many left Magnum because they did not like behaviour of Bresson, while Doisneau found smile for just anyone. In general, Parisians like work of Doisneau better but there are oposite too. But how many knows Bresson and still like his work, especially photogs (for some self reasons). What A. Adams did to his family to get well respected photographer, how many knows it?

 

[Daniel-OB]

TheFlyingCamera
... I came to her house, shot the slides of her work in situ, charged the same price for an 8x10 original as a 30x40 original, and delivered the slides to her for $5 per original slide, $2 per in-camera dupe. She then went on to ask me for much greater service, ... When I told her there would be a rush charge, she went ballistic...

I have the limits when to behave in a professional manner and when to kick someone out. I have some tolerances, sometimes wide. But sometimes people comes out even of my wide tolerances. If you do not respect yourself, and show no personality, who will?