Considering moving from a Mamiya to Hasselblad setup. Some thoughts and looking for feedback.

[cirwin2010]

I am considering selling some of my kit or all of my kit and condensing down to a Hasselblad setup. Currently have a Mamiya 645e and RZ67 with various lenses and accessories and an Epson v800 scanner. I am moving from a hybrid workflow to a purely black and white analog/darkroom workflow for film. I mostly do landscape photography and I shoot hand held frequently when conditions allow for it. I also like printing large, up to 16x20".

The RZ67 gives beautiful results if I don't need to carry it far from the car. The Bogen tripod I use to support this camera is unwieldy for anything but a short walk. If lighting allows, I can handhold the RZ67 with some of the lenses and get sharp results at 1/60s and sometimes slower. The camera is really well damped and the mass helps with vibration. The setup is just a bit much if I need more than a few pieces of equipment, but the results are worth it if the situation allows for it.

The 645e is a much easier setup to use. I use it with a grip which makes the camera feel and operate like a larger 35mm SLR. I can hand hold the camera as low as 1/30s (if I am steady) and get sharp results. The 80mm 2.8 and 45mm 2.8 lens I have for it yield very sharp results with the 80mm 2.8 being my favorite of the two. If I had a complaint about these lenses it would be a lack of "character" for anything requiring a shallow depth of field. Overall the camera is fine to use, but the negatives lack the same flexibility for cropping that the RZ67 has. I also prefer having less shots per roll. I usually go out to shoot one or two specific scenes and 15 shots can feel like a chore to go through, or I have to wait to finish the roll another day. It also it not the most exciting camera to use in my opinion.

The Hasselblad 500cm seems like the obvious camera to move to. It is smaller than the RZ67, has removable backs, is large and widely supported system, and produces a negative size between the 645e and RZ67. And lets be real, they are very attractive cameras.

My concerns with moving to a 500cm are as follows. I have read that they do not produce sharp images hand held, especially below 1/125 of a second. I also worry the lenses may not be as resolving and sharp as the Mamiya lenses.

Looking to see if anyone has input about the hand hold-ability of a Hasselblad, moving from Mamiya, lenses, etc.

 

[Paul Howell]

Don't have a Hassy but have a Kowa SL66 super, which is very similar to a Hassy 500, I've shot at 1/60th with good results, and a monopod works well with 6X6. Down side to any 6X6 is that unless your print square you lose a 1/3rd of your negatives cropped to 8X10 while the 6X7 and 6X4.5 print 8X10 full frame. I understand that Hasselblad made a 6 X 4.5 back for the 500. Although a large camera but very hand holdable is the Mamiya press with 6X9 back, downside it's a rangefinder. .

 

[voceumana]

I've never owned a Hasselblad, but here are my thoughts:

If you crop images to fit standard paper sizes, 6x6 gains you nothing in image quality over 6x4.5; if you print square, you do gain some image quality--and some images just fit the square format. Square can be very powerful, but not all images need power.

I've never heard anyone complain of lens quality in Hasselblad lenses, nor Mamiya, for that matter.

From my experience with Bronica SQ and its versions, I can say that 6x6 is definitely hand hold-able with the WLF. With a prism, I'd get a grip for it, as the form factor is a little awkward for eye level viewing for me--I'm sure there are people who have no problem with it, but I am not one of them. I have some wrist movement limitations from arthritis which may be the reason.

At age 69, I find it hard to focus a WLF--no problem in my youth, and I now find I much prefer a prism finder. For me, the Pentax 67 is the camera of choice for ease in focus and use, but I recommend a tripod with it (any any other camera where you want sharp images).

Maybe you just need a tripod that fits your needs better--carbon, perhaps?

 

[btaylor]

I’ll bite. I have an RZ and a Hasselblad 500cm. For all the beauty of the Hasselblad (it is a gorgeous piece of industrial design) I like the way the RZ handles better. I use the WL finder and given the plastics used in the RZ I don’t know if the weight difference is that great although the bulk of the Mamiya is certainly much greater. I like the square format of the Hassy. If you can, buy your Hasselblad and use it before you dump your Mamiya gear to be sure you actually prefer it.

 

[bdial]

Hasselblads are eminently hand-holdable. The lowest practical shutter speed really depends on the user, some folks can hand hold 1/30 of a second, others do better at 1/125 and faster. But that's true for any camera.
I prefer the 45 degree prism finder to a WLF, and it provides very good ergonomics. Better than either a WLF or a 90 degree prism, IMO.
The square gives you a lot of options for cropping, if you want, but you probably will want to embrace the square compositionally to get the best of what the lenses can produce. If a rectangle is your target print, I don't think you lose anything to a 645 camera, starting with a square, you can place that rectangle anywhere you want when you make the print. If you're starting with a 645 negative, you may need to make several shots, with varying angles or orientation to accomplish the same thing. OTH, you can frame your pictures tighter if you're going for a square for presentation.
The Hasselblad is a nice compromise of physical size, negative size and system versatility. They aren't perfect, but nearly so.

 

[Sirius Glass]

If you have questions, send a PM to me.
I recommend the 50mm, 80mm or 100mm and 250mm lenses to start. Get several film backs and attach dark slide holders if there are not already built in. I use the 45 degree PME prism as a light meter, better than WLF enlarged view, and elimination of left-right reversal.

 

[ruilourosa]

i would just recomend a 80mm to start

WLF is not so bad...

but SWC is a must

but sell the eletronic controled cameras and buy a hasselblad 50X

 

[Light Capture]

Using it handheld there won't be any difference apart from rendering.

There is a difference on Hasselblad (and any other camera) when you use it at 1/60th and 1/500th of a second.
There is also difference between 1/500th handheld, on light tripod and on heavy tripod. All depends on wind as well if you're outside.

All of this was compared personally by me and there are few MTF tests on internet that confirm it.

At 1/30th or 1/60th only difference between the two is rendering of the lenses.

If ultimate resolution matters to you Hasselblad will win if you take care of proper support and all of the caveats listed above.

Size difference is significant between RB 67 and Hasselblad. I met quite few people who moved from RB or RZ to Hasselblad and very few who vent other way for format reasons and extra resolution under ideal condition didn't matter to them.
At 1/30th or 1/60th in medium format, Leica will give better resolution since it's lenses are bit faster and it's less susceptible to vibration.
If there is proper support, lp/mm will be closer than expected between Leica and Hasselblad. Giving Hasselblad huge advantage but again there is portability difference between the two.
80mm Hasselblad peaks around f5.6 resolution wise and gets bit better at f8.

It's perfectly usable wide open. If used hand held there won't be much difference stopping it down.

 

[Sirius Glass]

i would just recomend a 80mm to start

WLF is not so bad...

but SWC is a must

but sell the eletronic controled cameras and buy a hasselblad 50X

but SWC is a must ..... shhhh we have to kidnap him first, then we can destroy him financially.

 

[MattKing]

You will miss those 6x7 negatives in the darkroom if you replace them with 6x6.
The RB67 works well with a moderate weight tripod. I would assume the same for the RZ67.
I'm fond of my Mamiya 645 Pro. A Hasselblad would be a good substitution for it, or a 645e.

 

[ruilourosa]

I have had several mamiyas and i just kept a Universal Press because i really like some lenses, especially the 100 2.8. Curiously it is a copy of a Planar...

Although Hasselblad is expensive, it is a really good sistem with some of the best lenses in MF. 38mm and 100mm being some of my favorites.

Hand held is better than Universal Press with it´s ergonomic grip...

and 1/30 is totaly doable up to 80mm, specially releasing the mirror before exposure.

SWC is nice being not as ergonomic as 500, but the lens is the best....

Leica has a smaller format, and many lenses for 35mm are better in resolution than MF...

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

I started with a Mamiya RZ 30 years ago because I did commercial work. The Polaroid back is great with the 7x7 cm proofs are great to show clients back in the day. They're great cameras with razor sharp lenses. I bought a used Hassy 8 years ago when they were cheaper. Photographers were just dumping them to get digital gear. I think lenses in both system are equally as good. The only time I touched one before I got one was loading the A-12 backs for photographers I assisted. To be perfectly honest, as I get older, the Hassy is lighter and feels good in the hand. My RZ with a prism is not fun to travel with. I know the camera system like the back of my hand. As you know, RZ won't work with a dead battery while Hassys will.

 

[ParkerSmithPhoto]

At one point I owned an RZ setup, a Bronica SQ setup and a Hassy. Obviously the design and finish of the Hasselblad is unsurpassed. For several reasons I decided to sell the RZ and Bronica.

I greatly prefer 12 negatives per roll rather than 10. I have not noticed any loss of image quality in using a cropped 6x6 vs a 6x7 negative.

The real estate required to support that extra 1cm on the negative translates into a much larger increase in size than you would imagine, especially since the back has to rotate. The Hassy seems svelte by comparison.

The lenses don't seem to have any significant difference to me. Even my old Bronica SQ makes razor sharp negs and beautiful prints at 16"

Finally, although the Hassy is more expensive, the long term viability of the platform is much greater, in my opinion.

I had the guys at CameraServicePros CLA all my lenses and bodies. They work on all medium format, and I highly recommend them.

 

[campy51]

I am unable to start a conversation with you for some reason. I have a Hasselblad 503CW in the classified forum. I also have a 500 C/M I could substitute for the 503. You can start a conversation with me if want more info.

 

[KenS]

I am considering selling some of my kit or all of my kit and condensing down to a Hasselblad setup. Currently have a Mamiya 645e and RZ67 with various lenses and accessories and an Epson v800 scanner. I am moving from a hybrid workflow to a purely black and white analog/darkroom workflow for film. I mostly do landscape photography and I shoot hand held frequently when conditions allow for it. I also like printing large, up to 16x20".

The RZ67 gives beautiful results if I don't need to carry it far from the car. The Bogen tripod I use to support this camera is unwieldy for anything but a short walk. If lighting allows, I can handhold the RZ67 with some of the lenses and get sharp results at 1/60s and sometimes slower. The camera is really well damped and the mass helps with vibration. The setup is just a bit much if I need more than a few pieces of equipment, but the results are worth it if the situation allows for it.

The 645e is a much easier setup to use. I use it with a grip which makes the camera feel and operate like a larger 35mm SLR. I can hand hold the camera as low as 1/30s (if I am steady) and get sharp results. The 80mm 2.8 and 45mm 2.8 lens I have for it yield very sharp results with the 80mm 2.8 being my favorite of the two. If I had a complaint about these lenses it would be a lack of "character" for anything requiring a shallow depth of field. Overall the camera is fine to use, but the negatives lack the same flexibility for cropping that the RZ67 has. I also prefer having less shots per roll. I usually go out to shoot one or two specific scenes and 15 shots can feel like a chore to go through, or I have to wait to finish the roll another day. It also it not the most exciting camera to use in my opinion.

The Hasselblad seems like the obvious camera to move to. It is smaller than the RZ67, has removable backs, is large and widely supported system, and produces a negative size between the 645e and RZ67. And lets be real, they are very attractive cameras.

My concerns with moving to a 500cm are as follows. I have read that they do not produce sharp images hand held, especially below 1/125 of a second. I also worry the lenses may not be as resolving and sharp as the Mamiya lenses.

Looking to see if anyone has input about the hand hold-ability of a Hasselblad, moving from Mamiya, lenses, etc.

In response
MY first 'question' is.. How often do you print an negative a square image (rather than 'say' a FULL FRAME on 8x10 (or larger)
paper. I used a Hasselblad for quite a few years (as a 'Pro') but invested in my RB67 thanks to a 'great deal' when purchasing it.

And... as of 'to-day' I have not yet printed any negative from my RB67 cropped down to produce a 'square image'. It does not (as of to-day get nearly as much use as my 4x5 Linhoff monorail or my MUCH more experienced B&J 'woodie' that had its grey paint
removed (and replaced with a few coats of Tung oil.

Ken

 

[cirwin2010]

In response
MY first 'question' is.. How often do you print an negative a square image (rather than 'say' a FULL FRAME on 8x10 (or larger)
paper. I used a Hasselblad for quite a few years (as a 'Pro') but invested in my RB67 thanks to a 'great deal' when purchasing it.

And... as of 'to-day' I have not yet printed any negative from my RB67 cropped down to produce a 'square image'. It does not (as of to-day get nearly as much use as my 4x5 Linhoff monorail or my MUCH more experienced B&J 'woodie' that had its grey paint
removed (and replaced with a few coats of Tung oil.

Ken

I like square photos, but I rarely compose for them as I typically use the aspect ratio of the camera for composition. If it is a square, I am sure I will print to a square more. I will occasionally print square if it improves my composition.

Even cropping down to 4:5 from a 6x6 negative will still give me more used negative than 4:5 from a 6x4.5. 6x4.5 from my 645e always needs to be cropped on the long side to fill 4:5 aspect paper. Even that gives me pretty good 16x20 prints.

I guess my point is I am not bothered by cropping a bit as I already am doing it with a smaller negative.

 

[cirwin2010]

For background: I have been on Mamiya for medium format since moving up from 35mm. I have two systems with several lenses each: Mamiya 645 Pro TL and Mamiya C330 TLR. Last year, I have decided to get into Hasselblad.

• As everyone says, Zeiss lenses are fantastic. One notable peculiarity here is they all have an extremely long focus throw. Precision over speed. It forces you to adopt completely different shooting pace, much slower and more deliberate than with Mamiya 645. Feels like you'll like it. I have settled on 60-100-150 instead of more commonly recommended 50-80-150. Why? Because I like my lenses to be comparable across systems. (I have the 80mm and 55mm Sekor lenses for my 645).
  
• I prefer the WLF on my Hasselblad, as it makes it much more portable than 45 degree prism or a chimney finder. With a 60mm lens it neatly fits into a small messenger bag, which I can walk around all day without even noticing.
  
• Risking to enrage Hasselblad aficionados, I will say that Hasselblad is more vibration-prone when used handheld, compared to Mamiya 645 Pro or Mamiya C330. I'd say it takes away one stop compared to the 645 and two vs the C330. Could be my technique, could be the auxiliary shutter, could be both.
• Another "precision over speed" thing with Hasselblads is their focusing screens. I have tried two, both AccumateD-V2 variety, and they both are impossible to focus quickly with. These screens are incredibly bright and allow you to see the exact focus point with incredible precision, but only if you focus slowly (and lenses are designed for this). If you try quick & long focus throws it's hard to focus by feel, like I can on the Mamiyas. It's hard to explain, but you don't get this feeling of distance-to-focus by how blurry the image is.
  
• The square is a personal choice. I almost never crop, I love the square and apparently I've been loving it my whole life (been chopping off "ears" on 35mm shots since forever). I used to have a 6x7 camera and found that aspect ratio to be annoying. Not wide enough for scenes where you need it, but takes away 2 frames on a roll, but again it's a personal thing.

The Hassy is by far the most engaging camera to shoot out of the three, and if I was forced to pick a single system that's the one I'd keep.

Thanks for your reply. What you are saying does seem to confirm the vibration issue with handheld shots at slower speeds. I have briefly looked at the Mamiya C330 TLR. How does the size and portability of that compare to the Hasselblad and the Mamiya 645? Do you find parallax and composing more difficult than the SLRs? I don't think it would be the replacement I am seeking for, but I would like to hear your perspective since you have used both Mamiya 645 and Hasselblad.

 

[Ariston]

I like square photos, but I rarely compose for them as I typically use the aspect ratio of the camera for composition. If it is a square, I am sure I will print to a square more. I will occasionally print square if it improves my composition.

Even cropping down to 4:5 from a 6x6 negative will still give me more used negative than 4:5 from a 6x4.5. 6x4.5 from my 645e always needs to be cropped on the long side to fill 4:5 aspect paper. Even that gives me pretty good 16x20 prints.

I guess my point is I am not bothered by cropping a bit as I already am doing it with a smaller negative.

If you are not bothered by it, then you have your answer. But there can be a pretty substantial difference in cropping to a wider format from a 6x7 vs a 6x6. Also, 6x7 gives you the option of wider frames on 35mm film, if you are into that sort of thing.

I have both the 500cm and an RB67. I almost sold my RB recently, but couldn't pull the trigger. It has a lot of things going for it the Hasselblad doesn't (and vice versa), like negative size and native close focus ability. The lenses for the RB are also much, much cheaper, which is a very big deal for poor people like me. The Hasselblad is lighter, but it's still not light if you are hiking, especially if you carry a prism finder so you can shoot at eye level. They are both great cameras with outstanding optics. You can hand hold either at the same focal lengths based on your ability.

 

[eli griggs]

One thing that you may find worth doing, with the Hasselblad, is making a small shutter speed tester to use with the free download of "Audacity" at https://www.audacityteam.org/.

Each of the central shutter Hasselblad lenses need testing and notation, on what the actual shutter speed is, at a particular setting..

Knowing this will help you know what your actual settings are, and in the instance of the slower S.Speeds, will help avoid actual speeds to slow to give good handheld images.

The thoughtful use of a quality, aluminum mono-pod (think older Gitzo models, with twist locks) will also help, and you can add additional support by using a shortened camera strap around your neck and your body as a counter force for the best stability you can gain, free standing or leaning against a car, building tree, etc.

This measure will help no matter which camera you use, in small and medium format, and even with old press cameras, in my experience, which does no cover the Electric Mamiya 645e, I've only had only analog use of, and the RZ67, which I've only ever looked over when new.

The Small shutter speed tester is also great for rangefinders like the Canonet 17, the Minolta 9 and like family, and all the other cameras that made up so much of the market, years ago, with the same leaf shutters and manual speeds, and apertures.

Good Luck.

 

[MattKing]

Even cropping down to 4:5 from a 6x6 negative will still give me more used negative than 4:5 from a 6x4.5. 6x4.5 from my 645e always needs to be cropped on the long side to fill 4:5 aspect paper. Even that gives me pretty good 16x20 prints

I print with half inch borders, so 6x4.5 on to an 8x10 or 11x14 fits with very little cropping (particularly 11 x 14).
For 16x20, there is a little bit of cropping, I agree, but not a lot. And full frame 6x4.5 on to 16x20 - unequal borders and all - looks very nice.

 

[cirwin2010]

In terms of portability I find all three of them comparable, and a lot depends on personal preferences. In my case, I pay attention to two variables:

1. Moving them, i.e. what kind of bag do I need? All three comfortably fit into a relatively small Ona Bowery Bag. So I can be exploring a new town with any of them. 645 and C330 even allow to put another lens in there! In that sense the Hassy is a bit less portable than the other two, but it doesn't matter to me as I never change lenses on the go.
2. On location portability, i.e. do I need to always keep the camera on a tripod or in the bag? Can I just have it hang on my neck? Surprisingly, I never liked 645 for this. The shape & weight distribution makes it really awkward to have it on you, I think the prism makes it so. Hasselblad with a WLF fits quite well and I can have it on a strap on my shoulder for extended periods of time. But if you mount a prism on a Blad, it becomes a tripod queen. C330 is the best: it's a neat brick which I can wear on a shoulder strap just behind my elbow, and it is by far the least fragile (and cheapest) of the three, i.e. I take it with me to "rough" places.

Again, thanks for your reply. I will keep what you said in mind about the cameras. I like the sound of the c330 and might take another look at that camera again. I worry about it not being an SLR though.


I'm curious about the camera bag you mentioned. How do you like it? I always struggle to find a decent bag. Does it fit the 645 with prism finder and grip in there with a lens or when it is more stripped down? Just trying to judge the size.

 

[nalu1212]

You can hand hold a Hasselblad all day long:
https://www.instagram.com/minnichphoto/

 

[removed account4]

I have never been able to afford a hassy but I hear they are beautiful machines .. well made, lenses are lovely, pleasure to use, I'd get one if you have designs for it, but my only advice is. ... I'd hold on to the other gear for a little while just in case you realize the Hassy isn't right for you. They sell without issue consistently, you will be able to find a buyer if you decide to go back to the other kit.
Im not sure which hassy my old college roommate had but he loved it. it had a shutter that well for lack of better words, really made a clunk when it fired. I remember he used to joke about it " feel this shutter it's solid" ... maybe it was a 500x or a 1600? no clue.. ( this was 30+ years ago if that helps )

have fun with your new adventure !
John

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I cut my medium format teeth on a C330. I wasn't fond of the square negative, or parallax, so I switched over to an RB67. I have played around with a friends Hasselblad. It sure feels good holding it, though. I'm glad I never got rid of my RB, as there was a time I contemplated doing so...

 

[k.hendrik]

Stick to your RZ ! the only reason for Hasslebold is their SWC
https://www.flickr.com/photos/77846450@N00/24150966815/in/dateposted-public/